Mississauga Sheridan Centre Redevelopment | ?m | 29s | SRI

[afransen]

I'm a bit curious how they expect the mall to work if all the surface parking is redeveloped.

I agree that having retail facing Erin Mills is a fools errand. Erin Mills is a road and trying to make that into a pleasant pedestrian atmosphere is not really serving anyone. Having more human scaled interior streets with retail has more of a chance of creating walkability.

 

[Northern Light]

I don't agree that retail on Erin Mills is a poor choice.

When compared to having it face an internal alcove of sorts?

I would take it facing Erin Mills 99 times out of 99.

Erin Mills is easy enough to fix. It's a six lane road that would easily lend it self to being a 4-lane road with cycle tracks and streetscaping.

The conversion of sites facing the road will take a generation, but you have to start somewhere.

****

Elsewise, I don't like the site plan.

I almost always oppose leaving 'malls' at the centre of such sites.

But overwhelmingly so for B/C Malls that have no real future.

Wasted opportunity written all over it.

The site would function so much better with a couple of new public roads cutting across it.

Let's start with North Sheridan Way being pushed through and linked to Hammond.

The idea of Fowler shouldn't even exist, it's bad design. But for now, it can stay.

However, I'd prefer to see this alignment at the south end:

That's someone else's land; but the idea is to build towards a 1km on a center street grid and to create a sense of urbanity.

My take on a grid here also allows for much greater intensification with time

 

[afransen]

I would take it facing Erin Mills 99 times out of 99.

Erin Mills is easy enough to fix. Its a six lane road that would easily lend it self to being a 4-lane road with cycle tracks and streetscaping

It depends on your perspective I suppose. Should every road try to become a street? Erin Mills is very much a road right now, with its main purpose to support the flow of vehicles particularly to the QEW. Trying to make it a street worth walking on would require narrowing and slowing it so much as to compromise its function as a road. I don't see the purpose of making pedestrians on shopping missions walk along a high volume, high speed road. Particularly when there is essentially zero street related retail currently.

 

[Northern Light]

It depends on your perspective I suppose. Should every road try to become a street? Erin Mills is very much a road right now, with its main purpose to support the flow of vehicles particularly to the QEW. Trying to make it a street worth walking on would require narrowing and slowing it so much as to compromise its function as a road. I don't see the purpose of making pedestrians on shopping missions walk along a high volume, high speed road. Particularly when there is essentially zero street related retail currently.

Erin Mills is not a true high way or expressway.

While seriously impaired as a 'street'; it is not beyond at least moderate redemption.

I would take the position that I don't support malls anywhere really; some larger regional centres will continue to exist for the forseeable future whether to my taste or not, but 'B' and 'C' malls need not.

If those mall are to go, including this one, there is a need to retain retail in the community, should it be either indoors, or facing a side street or private road away from public transit, or should it be primarily lining the road w/the bus route?

I take the position that it must go the bus route first. If some of it flows off that, say a smaller, pedestrian-focused restaurant street, that's great. But let's make sure the supermarket and other key retailers are accessible from the bus stop without a 5 minute walk.

***

The idea that Erin Mills function as a car-moving road first must be preserved entirely as-is is one I can't get behind. I want fewer people to drive, that means creating walkable streets where there are none, it means creating safe cycling conditions, and better transit.

There is no other N-S grid street nearby that can support those functions. Where else am I putting that bus route?

I favour densifying the grid here, which is my suggestions include linking North Sheridan to Hammond and setting up with the southern E-W leg of Fowler as a future E-W grid street.

But those changes would be insufficient to fully realize that objective in the near term; and the necessary scope of work is beyond this proponent.

I'm not suggesting we remove any freeways here, and I'm proposing leaving Erin Mills with 2 vehicle lanes in each direction, I'm not suggesting it become Las Ramblas

 

[AachenBacon]

Haven't seen anyone mention this, but they have recently installed dedicated Bike pathway along Erin Mills on this route, along with dedicated Bike Traffic Lights at the intersection. Also revitalized the transtit bus stops with handicap-accessible larger bus shelters.

However with that said, Erin Mills is definitely a high volume road right beside the QEW, street-facing retail would definitely be pretty pedestrian hostile. As much as I dislike tower in a park, I feel like if executed well here it could provide a solid Urban space.

 

[Northern Light]

Haven't seen anyone mention this, but they have recently installed dedicated Bike pathway along Erin Mills on this route, along with dedicated Bike Traffic Lights at the intersection. Also revitalized the transtit bus stops with handicap-accessible larger bus shelters.

Good contribution, thanks.

However with that said, Erin Mills is definitely a high volume road right beside the QEW, street-facing retail would definitely be pretty pedestrian hostile.

I think it can be softened quite a bit with good streetscaping and a wide boulevard.

Certainly it's a a challenging road to fix, but I think it's do-able.

As much as I dislike tower in a park, I feel like if executed well here it could provide a solid Urban space.

The problem I have here is how we do we get to a good final build-out state here w/o a more dense urban street grid that can support more transit routes etc etc. w/time.

If we lay this site out w/stuff in the way of new through roads, I see that as a problem.

Again, I think some retail off of Erin Mills could make sense.

But we need to do more, in my opinion than say ' density is good here, but the area is beyond being walkable' We need to make it walkable, and that's about the adjacent areas, to the north, south, east and west, which all need a re-do in the fullness of time.

 

[just east of the creek]

Good contribution, thanks.



I think it can be softened quite a bit with good streetscaping and a wide boulevard.

Certainly it's a a challenging road to fix, but I think it's do-able.



The problem I have here is how we do we get to a good final build-out state here w/o a more dense urban street grid that can support more transit routes etc etc. w/time.

If we lay this site out w/stuff in the way of new through roads, I see that as a problem.

Again, I think some retail off of Erin Mills could make sense.

But we need to do more, in my opinion than say ' density is good here, but the area is beyond being walkable' We need to make it walkable, and that's about the adjacent areas, to the north, south, east and west, which all need a re-do in the fullness of time.

Erin Mills/Southdown is a very high volume arterial connector. And recently rebuilt/expanded to handle volumes. Reducing to four lanes is not in the cards. As noted, upgrades to bike ways have been made, maybe not the ultimate, but improvements. Streetscaping could certainly use some work (as almost every major urban arterial road). However the proliferation of High Voltage Hydro running down the street will impede efforts.I think we have all talked about putting more hydro services under ground, especially where they front residential areas, so some remedial work in this area might be possible.

I agree with the questions about retaining the amount of the original retail space Of the mall. Not sure why. This is a lost opportunity.

An additional question would then be the future of the nearly or closely adjacent Springbank Meadows Park and Special Site 3 ( North Sheridan Landfill - Formerly a quarry, then a garbage dump, and now a passive park site) i believe some land use policies were developed in the early 2000’s concerning the general area, and I am not sure if they have been reviewed in past years.

 

[Undead]

The idea that Erin Mills function as a car-moving road first must be preserved entirely as-is is one I can't get behind. I want fewer people to drive, that means creating walkable streets where there are none, it means creating safe cycling conditions, and better transit.

I think it means changing the neighborhoods who generate the drivers. Since most of the drivers are probably not local, improving this area means potentially making things worse for others. Not going to generate the buy in needed to change the aforementioned surrounding areas.

I'm a bit curious how they expect the mall to work if all the surface parking is redeveloped.

Underground presumably.

But we need to do more, in my opinion than say ' density is good here, but the area is beyond being walkable' We need to make it walkable, and that's about the adjacent areas, to the north, south, east and west, which all need a re-do in the fullness of time.

Edit to acknowledge this.

 

[just east of the creek]

This is slightly off topic, so I'll just reference the information in regard to Springbank Park and the now Special Site 2. Both are the near adjacent passive and active park sites covering a former quarry / landfill and of interest to the proposed redevelopment of the Erin Mills Mall.

From the latest report I could find which is part of the Mississauga Official Plan (Mississauga Official Plan – Part 3 August 1, 2018) titled "Neighborhoods". The Section of interest is 'Sheridan' (which is pretty humorous as they vigorously bulldozed that settlement (Winston Churchill and South Service Road) into the ground leaving only the one silo as a only testament to what was once there).

16.22.2.2.1 The lands identified as Special Site 2 are known as the North Sheridan Landfill site and Springbank Meadows Park. This site has been identified as a former waste disposal site. Permitted land uses include open space and privately operated uses of a recreation, conservation and agricultural nature, and other uses deemed compatible with open space.16.22.2.2.2 Notwithstanding the provisions of the Public Open Space designation, the following additional policies will apply:

And those following additional policies revolve around the identification of the waste sire, installation and maintenance of a (methane) gas control system, a moratorium for any development for 25 years (from when?) without Provincial Government approval, and certain planning considerations.

Over the years I believe they have installed some sort of a methane gas collection and burn off system, occasionally added some additional landfill, demolished a previously lovely period home (but left the truly ugly 1970's block garage standing - you do wonder at times) and that is about it. I think there was some talk at one point of developing the site as a 9 hole golf course.

The ability for agricultural uses has some interest. A 'farm to table' operation, primarily market garden, could be interesting. However, with a methane collection system in hand, perhaps a small dairy operation....just need to transfer some quota, establish some infrastructure, and drivers creeping along the QEW would have a better view of where the cream for the double double in their hand comes from.

 

[Northern Light]

This is slightly off topic, so I'll just reference the information in regard to Springbank Park and the now Special Site 2. Both are the near adjacent passive and active park sites covering a former quarry / landfill and of interest to the proposed redevelopment of the Erin Mills Mall.

From the latest report I could find which is part of the Mississauga Official Plan (Mississauga Official Plan – Part 3 August 1, 2018) titled "Neighborhoods". The Section of interest is 'Sheridan' (which is pretty humorous as they vigorously bulldozed that settlement (Winston Churchill and South Service Road) into the ground leaving only the one silo as a only testament to what was once there).

View attachment 507862

16.22.2.2.1 The lands identified as Special Site 2 are known as the North Sheridan Landfill site and Springbank Meadows Park. This site has been identified as a former waste disposal site. Permitted land uses include open space and privately operated uses of a recreation, conservation and agricultural nature, and other uses deemed compatible with open space.16.22.2.2.2 Notwithstanding the provisions of the Public Open Space designation, the following additional policies will apply:

And those following additional policies revolve around the identification of the waste sire, installation and maintenance of a (methane) gas control system, a moratorium for any development for 25 years (from when?) without Provincial Government approval, and certain planning considerations.

Over the years I believe they have installed some sort of a methane gas collection and burn off system, occasionally added some additional landfill, demolished a previously lovely period home (but left the truly ugly 1970's block garage standing - you do wonder at times) and that is about it. I think there was some talk at one point of developing the site as a 9 hole golf course.

The ability for agricultural uses has some interest. A 'farm to table' operation, primarily market garden, could be interesting. However, with a methane collection system in hand, perhaps a small dairy operation....just need to transfer some quota, establish some infrastructure, and drivers creeping along the QEW would have a better view of where the cream for the double double in their hand comes from.

The agricultural use is curious.

Toronto Landfill Services won't abide a community garden near one of its sites w/o capping.

I think I would want to know:

a) Is there a proper inventory of what went in the ground? (ie. just household waste vs commercial/industrial)

b) I would want some current test results as we know household waste would have problematic items such as batteries or CFL bulbs and potential issues w/mercury and lead that may result.

Not what I want in my carrots.

Site might be just fine.....but yeah, test first, grow later.

 

[just east of the creek]

The agricultural use is curious.

Toronto Landfill Services won't abide a community garden near one of its sites w/o capping.

I think I would want to know:

a) Is there a proper inventory of what went in the ground? (ie. just household waste vs commercial/industrial)

b) I would want some current test results as we know household waste would have problematic items such as batteries or CFL bulbs and potential issues w/mercury and lead that may result.

Not what I want in my carrots.

Site might be just fine.....but yeah, test first, grow later.

Don't disagree at all. I am sure has a very broad set of general specified uses that any organization ( in the event of a specific proposal) have to comply with and then fit with the surrounding uses. So beyond the testing to see what is emanating from the ground in any state, how it may be captured, stored etc. the use of the land re ag would be mightily restricted I would imagine. Best practice dairy, hog etc produce some odor and some unsightly (to some eyes) by products. Crops of any sort would have to deal with the question of what am i actually growing in. This is an old dump - so heavy metals etc etc ?? But the idea of urban farming on a larger scale greatly appeals. We're getting way off topic here for which I apologize for, but farming and farming in near urban areas is part of what we do.

 

[afransen]

There is no other N-S grid street nearby that can support those functions. Where else am I putting that bus route?

I would say the bus route should divert from Erin Mills into the redeveloped mall lands. Not only to provide transit riders with better access to the retail on the site, but to make it easier to access for the thousands of future condo residents.

 

[Northern Light]

I would say the bus route should divert from Erin Mills into the redeveloped mall lands. Not only to provide transit riders with better access to the retail on the site, but to make it easier to access for the thousands of future condo residents.

Then you run the risk of lengthening through-route trips; adding turning movements, 4 of them to run through the development and back out to the Parkway will add no less than 2 minutes, but given the role of traffic lights in delays, it's probably a median add of 4-5M to the route. Only justifiable if the mall itself is the primary destination.

 

[just east of the creek]

I would say the bus route should divert from Erin Mills into the redeveloped mall lands. Not only to provide transit riders with better access to the retail on the site, but to make it easier to access for the thousands of future condo residents.

Linking the Clarkson GO, with the Dundas Busway and further north through the HWY 403 Busway and then further north to the 401/407 employment areas.

Erin Mills is a 6 lane arterial, but for superior bus service, some form of dedicated transit lane would or could be a worthwhile project. In many areas the RWO is pretty wide and squeezing in extra lanes might be feasible. Or designating two of the existing lanes as a transit lane (not sure how successful those are in real life ). But this is car city so there will be a crowd up in arms no doubt.

 

[reinventingthewheel]

I would say the bus route should divert from Erin Mills into the redeveloped mall lands. Not only to provide transit riders with better access to the retail on the site, but to make it easier to access for the thousands of future condo residents.

I think if this approach is taken there should probably be some sort of express service to compliment the 13 bus, which already takes several detours on its N-S route.
I could maybe see an Erin Mills Parkway almost-BRT if the demand grows along the corridor. After Hurontario it’s probably the best N-S arterial in Mississauga, with many destinations and transit connections.
I personally really like the right lane Bus/HOV lanes in Vancouver but I can’t really picture the GTA adopting these.