Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[MetroMan]

Could I ask, was this in a "mixed zone" or the regular bike path?

It was on the bike path about 30 feet after an intersection. The pedestrian was one of those clueless people who wander mindlessly into traffic.

The punch from the viral video last summer was in the mixed zone of a crossroad and the cyclist simply didn't stop on a red and hit a pedestrian.

I can understand why some cyclists may miss where they need to stop and I can understand pedestrians not knowing where to wait for the crosswalk light and I can understand some cars accidentally driving into the ROW but I cannot understand people who wander off the sidewalk on to the bike lane. It's an entirely different pavement. Would they wander off a sidewalk into a car lane?

The streetcar ROW needs to be a different texture that would be obvious to cars that they're driving into a lane not meant for them. Grass would be ideal but rough cobblestone or at minimum stark humps painted bright red would do the trick.

For cyclists, traffic lights with a bike symbol should be placed on low poles *where the cyclists are intended to stop*, not far up ahead.

For pedestrians, the crosswalk button should be placed before the bike lane so that they wait there and don't have to cross live bike traffic and don't have to wait between that bike traffic and streetcars inches from their noses.

Finally, for pedestrians too stupid to understand the difference between sidewalk and bike lane, perhaps low lying bushes could be planted separating the two.

 

[Firthient]

The Bay-York stretch of the trail is totally trial by fire. I was down there this evening with the usual wandering oblivious pedestrians. Actually, in this case the cyclists on my run were good. What struck me, as always, was the complete lack of police enforcement. Couldn't they be at one or two points to direct the crowds. There were more than 5 hanging (only 2 were working) at Lake Shore and Coxwell pre-fireworks, why couldn't they allocate a crew downtown?

 

[Megaton327]

The Bay-York stretch of the trail is totally trial by fire. I was down there this evening with the usual wandering oblivious pedestrians. Actually, in this case the cyclists on my run were good. What struck me, as always, was the complete lack of police enforcement. Couldn't they be at one or two points to direct the crowds. There were more than 5 hanging (only 2 were working) at Lake Shore and Coxwell pre-fireworks, why couldn't they allocate a crew downtown?

There's nothing for the police to enforce. The Martin Goodman Trail is a mixed-use recreational trail, it is not illegal for pedestrians to walk or even stand in it--stupid of them, yes, but I don't believe it would be breaking any laws. It really should have been designated strictly as a cycle track with more enforcement and more separation, but alas, that's not the case, so nothing for police to do.

 

[Miscreant]

Today

Funnily enough, these two photos depict exactly what I was talking about. First, we have a guy on a cell phone situated dead center of the bike lane (mixed zone, but whatever). Second, we have a young child being strolled across the bike lane, as cyclists are approaching.

I realize that pedestrians need to cross. But it's not just crossing that we're seeing down here--it's at times potential collisions avoided by inches. It was driving me nuts.

 

[interchange42]

Cyclists (includes me—I went through there with a couple of friends on Saturday) have a responsibility to slow down enough in those zones that if there is a clueless pedestrian wandering onto the trail, that they can stop in time. They're also welcome, as far as I'm concerned, to tell pedestrians that clearing the trail quickly is in their best interest.

42

 

[salsa]

The streetcar ROW needs to be a different texture that would be obvious to cars that they're driving into a lane not meant for them. Grass would be ideal but rough cobblestone or at minimum stark humps painted bright red would do the trick.

I noticed that the database page for this thread has a rendering of the grass that everyone wishes we would have. It's so hard to look at this and not feel pissed off.

 

[MetroMan]

That was the original direction but emergency vehicles vetoed the idea even though I haven't once seen a single emergency vehicle use the ROW. I've seen firetrucks and ambulances with sirens blaring, weaving between the regular car lanes. The new Queens Quay never has enough traffic to block emergency vehicles.

 

[Torontovibe]

 

[PinkLucy]

Cyclists (includes me—I went through there with a couple of friends on Saturday) have a responsibility to slow down enough in those zones that if there is a clueless pedestrian wandering onto the trail, that they can stop in time. They're also welcome, as far as I'm concerned, to tell pedestrians that clearing the trail quickly is in their best interest.

42

The trail (except in the mixed zones) is marked for biking, running and roller blading -- not for walking. So that could be enforced. I'm seeing a lot of skateboarding along the trail this year. I always (more or less politely) point out to pedestrians that it's a bike trail and most move out of the way pretty quickly. As mentioned earlier, people who are there regularly seem to have figured it out but tourist season is upon us, so back to the learning curve.

Any cyclists (including me) who thinks it's a time trial section needs to think again. Now that the nice weather seems to have arrived, I'll avoid it except for maybe 6 am because it's nuts -- a victim of its own success.

 

[mettle]

Occasionally, at Ashbridge's Bay, I see pedestrians wander onto the Martin Goodman Trail, but the frequency is much lower. The density of people is also much lower.

 

[PinkLucy]

Not on a sunny Saturday afternoon. I've had to walk my bike through the Beach section of the trail because of the crowds. Don't go on Canada Day!

 

[ShonTron]

The trail (except in the mixed zones) is marked for biking, running and roller blading -- not for walking. So that could be enforced. I'm seeing a lot of skateboarding along the trail this year. I always (more or less politely) point out to pedestrians that it's a bike trail and most move out of the way pretty quickly. As mentioned earlier, people who are there regularly seem to have figured it out but tourist season is upon us, so back to the learning curve.

Any cyclists (including me) who thinks it's a time trial section needs to think again. Now that the nice weather seems to have arrived, I'll avoid it except for maybe 6 am because it's nuts -- a victim of its own success.

I avoid it completely between Yonge and Bathurst these days. I'd rather go up to the Richmond and Adelaide bike routes, even with Adelaide's problems between York and Victoria. It's easier dealing with an illegally parked/stopped car in the bike lane than dozens of idiots - be it pedestrians, cyclists or spaced out tourists - on Queen's Quay.

 

[ksun]

I avoid it completely between Yonge and Bathurst these days. I'd rather go up to the Richmond and Adelaide bike routes, even with Adelaide's problems between York and Victoria. It's easier dealing with an illegally parked/stopped car in the bike lane than dozens of idiots - be it pedestrians, cyclists or spaced out tourists - on Queen's Quay.

It is unrealistic to expect all pedestrians to avoid the bike lane. In the summer, QQ is a zoo during weekend afternoons (like yesterday), and pedestrians are distracted by a million things, not to mention many tourists might not even know it is a bike lane. Strictly speaking, they should not walk on it but in reality it is very hard to enforce. What will do, to issue a ticket? that's unlikely. It is like you can't prevent pedestrians from jay walking Yonge or Queen west - they will always do what they like. On QQ, the number of runners and bikes simply aren't large enough to remind them constantly that it is a bike/running lane only. So I think there is no solution to that. Being angry doesn't help.

Additionally, in terms of "collisions", I would say just like cars are supposed to go slowly in a residential streets, cyclists simply can't expect to ride fast and smoothly in central waterfront without unpleasant interruption, especially on busy days. That's just impossible. They would have to learn to rider slowly, although technically speaking, it is their right of way.

 

[LNahid2000]

The Bay-York stretch of the trail is totally trial by fire. I was down there this evening with the usual wandering oblivious pedestrians. Actually, in this case the cyclists on my run were good. What struck me, as always, was the complete lack of police enforcement. Couldn't they be at one or two points to direct the crowds. There were more than 5 hanging (only 2 were working) at Lake Shore and Coxwell pre-fireworks, why couldn't they allocate a crew downtown?

The issue with the Bay-York stretch this weekend was that the lines for the ferries were so long that they went past the bike lane. Of course people didn't bother to leave a gap at the bike lane so no one could get through and it was chaos.

 

[salsa]

It is unrealistic to expect all pedestrians to avoid the bike lane. In the summer, QQ is a zoo during weekend afternoons (like yesterday), and pedestrians are distracted by a million things, not to mention many tourists might not even know it is a bike lane. Strictly speaking, they should not walk on it but in reality it is very hard to enforce.

An even bigger problem is that the waterfront can get so busy that there is not enough sidewalk space to accommodate all the pedestrians, so they end up spilling onto the bike lane. I'm not sure there is any solution for this, other than constructing the five planned pedestrian bridges which would provide a continuous alternative to Queens Quay. Maybe we should call it the "bike lane relief line".