Toronto Queens Quay & Water's Edge Revitalization | ?m | ?s | Waterfront Toronto

[hawc]

Pedestrians on the MGT are to bikes, what bikes are to cars on the road. A slower moving annoyance that nevertheless have right of way. Haha, sweet, sweet karma.

 

[Tuscani01]

Then maybe they should take away the large white bicycle markings. There are other sections of the MGT that are separated for bikes and pedestrians, and it makes sense for this section to be separated as well. Fortunately, that's prett much how people are using it.

I think the idea was that it would function as an exclusive bike lane most of the time, but during big events along the waterfront when there is a large influx of visitors, the space can be used by pedestrians also.

"As with all of Toronto’s multi-use trails, well-used for both active transportation and a range of recreational activities, the Martin Goodman Trail is not specifically for cycling, per se. The trail will also be used by rollerbladers, joggers and, yes, possibly pedestrians. And that’s okay. Cyclists and other faster-moving traffic are required to yield to slower traffic and to observe the speed limit for Toronto’s multi-use trail system, which is a maximum of 20km/h."
http://blog.waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe...OHIPflNUurMo_wGi9n2bX9ZltvBZcR7o3SdbezNN/#FAQ

 

[Napoleon]

The MGT is multipurpose, not just for bikes. Pedestrians are allowed to use it according to Waterfront Toronto's instructions. They even suggest walking your bike when there are too many pedestrians. There's also a speed limit of 20km/h.

Except in this case, it is so clearly meant purely as a bike lane, that pedestrians really should stay off it unless they would like a collision. My guess is that if any pedestrians were offended by cyclists, they were probably somewhere they shouldn't have been.

 

[MetroMan]

Not too busy today.

Such a shame that the grass streetcar ROW wasn't implemented. It would have made a stark difference. In time, the trees will help green the area but I hope that once the paving needs replacing that they revert to plan A and put in grass or at least astro turf.

 

[drum118]

Such a shame that the grass streetcar ROW wasn't implemented. It would have made a stark difference. In time, the trees will help green the area but I hope that once the paving needs replacing that they revert to plan A and put in grass or at least astro turf.

You better talk to the EMS folks as they are the ones who do not want grass, but want concrete. Until you change their mind, its a dead issue even in 20 years when the tracks needs to replace. Grass is the right way, but DOA.

I still say paint 20' of the ROW on either side of any intersection RED with a large logo of a car in the red, with an X on the car.

 

[Tuscani01]

Except in this case, it is so clearly meant purely as a bike lane

That is from this case. The instructions came straight from Waterfront Toronto's Queens Quay FAQ's.

 

[muller877]

Except in this case, it is so clearly meant purely as a bike lane, that pedestrians really should stay off it unless they would like a collision. My guess is that if any pedestrians were offended by cyclists, they were probably somewhere they shouldn't have been.

Now if some driver said that about a cyclist on a road how would you react? Now that Queens Quay has a multipurpose trail Queens Quay "...is so clearly meant purely as a [car] lane, that [cyclists] really should stay off it unless they would like a collision" Not condoning it nor agreeing with it...just showing the issues with your comment above

 

[the lemur]

What a complete joke. This guy--and, perhaps by extension, Tory insofar as he made DMW Deputy Mayor--has an abject ignorance of city building, and displays such pathetic ignorance about the virtues of urban development that it's stupefying.

He's an unimaginative petty bean counter without vision and character.

And wasn't he on the board of Waterfront Toronto during that time? How is he claiming that there were cost overruns as if they were being kept secret? Didn't he go to their meetings?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

And wasn't he on the board of Waterfront Toronto during that time? How is he claiming that there were cost overruns as if they were being kept secret? Didn't he go to their meetings?

The reality of DMW is that he's playing Twitter to his 'choir', his constituents. Same thing with his goofy Cherry fields pix. He, personally, has the ability to learn anything he wants to know about WT by showing up at Board meetings. He could easily have had himself sent to WT meetings as Ford's representative back in the day when Ford didn't go to the meetings. It's all about his personal perception of his reason for being a councillor as to make any cost to the city as minimal as possible.

 

[the lemur]

He, personally, has the ability to learn anything he wants to know about WT by showing up at Board meetings. He could easily have had himself sent to WT meetings as Ford's representative back in the day when Ford didn't go to the meetings.

+ 1

You can't get much worse than someone who deliberately keeps himself ignorant and then claims there's a conspiracy to keep things from being known.

 

[Napoleon]

That is from this case. The instructions came straight from Waterfront Toronto's Queens Quay FAQ's.

I know I'm being a bit over the top, but I really don't think that's a good plan. And yes, I think now that there's a solid bike path, bikes should ideally stay off the road here. Given it's only 1 lane of traffic in each direction and a bit narrow, no need for bikes to slow the cars down sharing the road.

I guess I'm just not buying this mixing zone idea that suddenly everyone will become more cautious as the pavement changes from light grey to dark grey. This is some idea from an urban planning brainstorming session that just doesn't work in the real world. If you read their text in the FAQ:

There are separate spaces devoted to pedestrians, cyclists, cars and TTC – defined by paving material (Paleo-Tec versus granite versus asphalt), pavement markings (elephant feet, cross lines, stop bars, cross lines) and signs.

,
How many members of the general public know what "paleo-tec" is or "elephant feet". It's all too subtle.

Clearly subtlety is not working whatsoever for the car/streetcar "mixing zones". I think Queen's Quay is the ideal layout to almost completely separate modes of transportation with the exception of one or two places where bikes and pedestrians due actually need to mix (namely on either end). You've got separate areas for cars, streetcars, bikes, and pedestrians. Let's forget mixing zones and clearly demarcate where everyone should be when.

 

[Tuscani01]

Let's forget mixing zones and clearly demarcate where everyone should be when.

But that's exactly what creates the issues that we are seeing on Queens Quay today. Telling everyone where they should be and when just leads to laziness on the part of all users.

People need to be more aware of what they are doing and when, especially in an area as busy as Queens Quay. In the winter, it won't be that bad, but during the summer, there are thousands of people walking along side the path. The chance of someone accidentally walking into, or being shoved into the cycle track is pretty high, so no one should be assuming that it is just a reserved highway for bikes. (On really busy days, the sidewalks won't be able to handle the crush of people and the crowds will naturally spill out onto the bike lanes too - No different than people walking on the roadway during events in the past) If it were physically divided, It would be an entirely different case, but its not. Everyone needs to just pay attention to their surroundings and other users of Queens Quay.

Im not saying all pedestrians should start walking on the MGT, or that cyclists should start using the road. I just think everyone needs to be more responsible for their own actions and try to adjust to the conditions in front of them. The current set-up helps reinforce this idea, and forces everyone to be a bit more cautious.

 

[Miscreant]

The reality of DMW is that he's playing Twitter to his 'choir', his constituents. Same thing with his goofy Cherry fields pix. He, personally, has the ability to learn anything he wants to know about WT by showing up at Board meetings. He could easily have had himself sent to WT meetings as Ford's representative back in the day when Ford didn't go to the meetings. It's all about his personal perception of his reason for being a councillor as to make any cost to the city as minimal as possible.

Bingo.

 

[drum118]

Talking to Waterfront Toronto at Tuesday night meeting, there is no money to take the design west to Bathurst St when time comes to replace TTC tracks. There is no long range budget to do it. They are going to look at it and see how it can fit into the next budget cycle.

The work west of where the QQ design stop, that work was done at the last moment by the city at their cost.

As for changing current MTO standards for traffic lights, Waterfront has already had talks with them and they are being being stuck in time on it at this time.

 

[smably]

Went by today. Very stark. Concrete and little to no shade.

Really? The only concrete I can see is on the streetcar ROW, and that was an EMS requirement. The entire pedestrian area is paved with pink and white granite (and looks gorgeous, in my opinion), and there are plenty of street trees that will fill out nicely in a few years. Trees take time to grow -- who knew!