Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

[rbt]

Don't be surprised also to see completing the missing Sheppard Yonge to Downsview Park link if only as a spur to deploy trainsets.

A Yonge North yard is about 1/5th the cost of the Sheppard West extension, and has the added benefit of no operating expenses.

Another major benefit is it's not Wilson Yard (single point of failure, even with 2 Yard exits). One really poorly positioned fire at Wilson and TTC would have massive troubles with service for days.

 

[dowlingm]

So if the subway takes a ~310m radius curve from Eastern to Pape (same as curve north-west from Downsview tail tracks) that puts the turn beginning at Eastern-Morse.

 

[W. K. Lis]

If the NIMBYs want the Relief Line to use Carlaw instead of Pape south of Gerrard, then we'll expect a subway jog with turns (and noise) bigger than the jog between College and Wellesley Stations.

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

 

[MisterF]

NIMBYs on Carlaw would put up just as much of a fight as the NIMBYs on Pape. It makes no difference where the subway goes, it'll raise a hornet's nest of residents regardless. You can't let that stop you from building infrastructure.

the NIMBY highlight of the evening was when someone asked about the effect of electro-magnetic fields.

Try getting involved in planning new cell phone towers. It'll make your head spin.

 

[GenerationW]

It was kinda amusing to hear people who still made it to the meeting, complaining that nobody told them about it.

A few people said they only heard about it a day or two before. And in fairness, human nature being what it is, most (non-transit geek) locals don't pay attention to these things until the eleventh hour.

I have no doubt Pam McConnell's inbox was overloaded by Friday afternoon.

 

[TransitBart]

A few people said they only heard about it a day or two before. And in fairness, human nature being what it is, most (non-transit geek) locals don't pay attention to these things until the eleventh hour.

I have no doubt Pam McConnell's inbox was overloaded by Friday afternoon.

Actually the Councillor is Paula Fletcher.

 

[BurlOak]

The ideal route would be to follow the old streetcar route up Carlaw, then veering east to Pape. The streetcar used to turn from Carlaw onto Pape on Riverdale - not sure if that's feasible or desirable for a subway. Would Gerrard work better?

Here is the math on this.

Due to the 300m radius, the Queen station (at Carlaw ) has to be on the north side of Queen (not centred about it). This is shown in the City proposal (at Pape).
It is 200m from Carlaw to Pape, so from the north end of the platform the line has to curve east with a 300m radius and then curve back north again with a 300m radius to be parallel with Pape. This maneuver takes about 500m. Thus, the proposed Gerrard Station location can be preserved.
I don't think TTC (or passengers) like a tight radius curve in one direction, immediately switching to a tight radius in the other direction.

Although it appears they are doing this exact same thing to get from Richmond to Queen between Sumach and Sherbourne stations. Interesting that if you look at the available info, this curve is not shown, but occurs over about 80m between Power and Parliament.

Somehow, those drawings provided at the info session are wrong.

Here are detailed alignment slides I shot (only uploaded ones for recommended alignment)

 

[Kitsune]

Here is the link for the actual map of the proposed Eastern to Queen climb: http://reliefline.ca/uploads/EQ_map.png . Looks to be smooth, although going under the Shoppers (I think there is a development proposed here?) could prove interesting.

 

[M II A II R II K]

I guess that's what the initial $150 million is for, to figure out the best routes and turns.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Not mentioned is how would the tracks and trains connect between the new Relief Line and Line 2 and/or Line 1.

Is there, or more accurately will there, be room for a TTC gauge tracks between along the railway from Pape & Gerrard to the Greenwood yards? With GO, RER, SmartTrack, and maybe a TTC service track, there might be not enough room, unless the TTC stays underneath all the way.

 

[h2k]

The attached drawing of the Queen-Pape station indicates a platform width of 21 meters. If I'm not mistaken I believe Pape Ave. is only 18 meters ROW, does anyone here know what the intentions are here?
Also for anyone who attended the meetings, is the understanding that the construction of the station box and platform would require a cut and cover? how do they intend to build this with all the single family homes there?

 

[CapitalSeven]

I think that diagram says 10 m for the platform and 21 for the whole box, including tracks and walls (assuming a centre platform). Somewhere in the material that emerged recently they suggested the stations at Gerrard and Queen would have to be mined out. I suspect that they will end up doing this at the two downtown stations as well.

 

[h2k]

I think that diagram says 10 m for the platform and 21 for the whole box, including tracks and walls (assuming a centre platform).

but if the ROW is only 18 meters, how do they get 21 meters? do they intend to encroach over the individual single family home properties?

 

[44 North]

but if the ROW is only 18 meters, how do they get 21 meters? do they intend to encroach over the individual single family home properties?

CapitalSeven is correct that this, and many of the stations will most likely be "mined". So it won't be the typical open station box that we've seen with the majority of our underground stations. And this isn't so much 'encroachment' (or maybe it could be considered as such), but the City/TTC/Mlinx would have to obtain subsurface property rights from every property owner the line travels under. This finagling is not the most optimal, and was brought up in the shortlist/longlist phases, but if there's no other way it's an okay solution.

It used to be easy to find, but does anyone have a link to a City map that shows roadway ROW widths?

 

[Kitsune]

South of Queen Pape goes right to the front door of homes, which would suggest a similar width north of Queen. Also, despite what the TTC says, this Report states some residential properties will need to be expropriated for TBM extraction after tunneling the Wye, its under the Storage Facility section.