Toronto Ontario Line 3 | ?m | ?s

Paleo said:
How many VIA passengers use Union each day? 7-8 thousand at best? How many use the subway to get to the CBD each day? It's probably an order of magnitude more. (probably a lot more than that)
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Your guess of 7000 seems pretty high even for the holiday rush when they run longer trains at capacity.


During the peak time of the year (Holidays from Dec 19th, 2007 through Jan 8th, 2008) VIA carried about 230,000 passengers in the Quebec City to Windsor corridor (per Transport 2000 news item).

This works out to about 12800 per day in that entire corridor (weekends may see higher usage than weekdays, not sure). That includes the Montreal-Ottawa trips and passengers who connect through union (Kingston to Windsor).
 
nfitz said:
City of Toronto reports 2.4 million VIA passengers a year - over 50% of VIA's passengers ... and 44 VIA trains a day. Just an average then over 365 days gives you about 6,600 passengers a day. Given that almost 7,000 is the average, the peak is surely significantly higher!
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Shrug. Whelp, we know the peak value per day during holiday period in the Windsor through Quebec City corridor.

I expect the above count for Toronto represents transfers from one train to another. So, a person on a Kingston to London trip represent 2 Toronto passengers since the train changes number (two tickets, arrival to Toronto and departure from Toronto but they don't need to leave their seat as it's often the same train -- was for me anyway).

I was thinking Torontonians since the original topic was how a DRL might impact VIA.
 
rbt said:
Shrug. Whelp, we know the peak value per day during holiday period in the Windsor through Quebec City corridor.

I expect the above count for Toronto represents transfers from one train to another. So, a person on a Kingston to London trip represent 2 Toronto passengers since the train changes number (two tickets, arrival to Toronto and departure from Toronto but they don't need to leave their seat as it's often the same train -- was for me anyway).

I was thinking Torontonians since the original topic was how a DRL might impact VIA.
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Why should VIA impact where the DRL goes anyways? VIA trips are spread out throughout the day, so there isn't the same issue of peak hour capacity as there is with GO, because VIA has no peak hour (there may be an extra train or two leaving between 5 and 6 pm, but let's face it, an entire VIA train can easily fit onto 1 subway train, so that extra influx can be easily absorbed).

Just out of curiosity, is there anything in the Union revitalization plan that separates the PATH traffic from the Union subway traffic? ie a separate walkway for PATH commuters walking to/from Union GO to the CBD from those using the Union subway concourse? I suspect that alone will reduce some of the bottleneck, even if it's just efficiency of people movement through the station.
 
VIA's issues can be sorted out with better practices. They don't make you line up in the station prior to accessing the platform at Guildwood.
 
gweed123 said:
Just out of curiosity, is there anything in the Union revitalization plan that separates the PATH traffic from the Union subway traffic? ie a separate walkway for PATH commuters walking to/from Union GO to the CBD from those using the Union subway concourse?
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Yes, the concourse is being reconfigured to let PATH-bound commuters from the GO concourse to walk either side of a single subway fare-paid zone. There is also another PATH connection being built to connect to the west side of Union Station.
 
Another way to alleviate traffic at Bloor/Yonge Station would be to have the B/D line split off at St. George during rush hour and go down Bay St. assuming there's enough space underground for it and have half the trains run down there during rush hous, and there would also be an eastern split off at Bloor/Yonge where the eastern trains would run down there also.

That's far less people transferring at Bloor/Yonge Station, particularly if their destination is closer to Bay St. anyway.
 
M II A II R II K said:
Another way to alleviate traffic at Bloor/Yonge Station would be to have the B/D line split off at St. George during rush hour and go down Bay St. assuming there's enough space underground for it and have half the trains run down there during rush hous, and there would also be an eastern split off at Bloor/Yonge where the eastern trains would run down there also.

That's far less people transferring at Bloor/Yonge Station, particularly if their destination is closer to Bay St. anyway.
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That could work but unlike the DRL, it wouldn't bring subway service to the unserved neighbourhoods east of downtown. That's just as important as relieving Bloor-Yonge, imo - subway coverage in central Toronto is awful.
 
From the Post

Urban Scrawl
Toronto
Get relief line back on track
Michael Thompson
National Post
667 words
16 September 2009
National Post
FINP
Toronto
A14
English
(c) 2009 National Post . All Rights Reserved.

rs a supplementary transit route linking downtown Toronto with its suburbs has been talked about, and forgotten. The need for such a line, called the Downtown Relief Line, or DRL, has been recognized for as long as Toronto has had a subway network.

Its first incarnation was the Queen subway, which was approved in 1946, but never built due to funding and politics. The TTC and the city continued to ponder a Queen subway, with a northeast terminus as far as Don Mills Road and Eglinton Avenue, until as late as 1974. In the 1980s, the City's "Network 2011" proposal included a Downtown Rapid Transit corridor.

The corridor would run east-west through the downtown core (Queen Street or further south), and from the east end of downtown extend northeast through the fairly dense Thorncliffe Park area.

Options for the DRL could be explored, including transit hubs at the eastern and western ends of the line connected to GO Transit, and the subway and light rail networks. Metrolinx, the provincial agency responsible for Greater Toronto and Hamilton Area regional transportation, has included the DRL in its Regional Transportation Plan. At its peak in 2031, the DRL is projected by Metrolinx to carry as many as 17,500 riders in the busiest hour at the busiest point.

The DRL positively impacts at least half the subway network, particularly the Yonge and Danforth subways. Bloor-Yonge Station, the most congested junction in the system, would receive substantial relief from the DRL, as would the busiest parts of the streetcar network, particularly the King Street service, and Queen Street services as well.

The proposed Transit City light rail system (particularly the Don Mills line, and possibly the Eglinton-Crosstown line) as well as GO rail services will also benefit in varying degrees from the DRL.

The economic incentive in relation to the Yonge North Subway Extension is particularly striking. The Yonge extension creates complex spin-off needs that would be unnecessary expenses with the DRL. It would cost about $2-billion to increase capacity on the existing subway system if the DRL is not built, which is telling to how much suffering (for riders and taxpayers alike) can be avoided by building the DRL.

As the city's increasing transportation demands need to primarily be accommodated by public transit, the TTC's ability to accommodate the growing demands, both from Toronto and surrounding 905 communities, with attractive service that people would choose over their cars, is essential to avoid worsening gridlock.

Metrolinx has identified the DRL as a line of "regional significance," and the TTC has recognized the importance of the corridor with a study starting in the fall. However, the City of Toronto Official Plan has yet to follow suit. As the Official Plan is the city's comprehensive, governing planning document, the omission of the DRL is significant, and will require an Official Plan amendment to correct. Today I will ask the Planning and Growth Management Committee to do exactly that.

The Official Plan supports a sustainable approach to city building, and so does the DRL. The DRL alleviates the most stressed parts of the subway, streetcar and GO rail networks. It ensures attractive service quality by improving system reliability, alleviating crowding, and boosting the system's ability to cope with major disruptions.

For decades, the Yonge subway has been counterbalanced in the west by the University-Spadina subway, but has never had an equivalent in the east, which is overdue. The problem is not restricted to south of Bloor Street either, as the Yonge subway is overcapacity from as far north as Davisville currently, and ridership is growing annually.

Growth is coming whether Toronto and the surrounding region has the transit capacity to absorb that growth or not. The region needs the DRL. - Michael Thompson is Toronto City Councillor for Ward 37, Scarborough Centre

Color Photo: Peter Redman, National Post Files / Michael Thompson ;
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Too bad he didn't have the same fervour when sticking up for his own riding. Where was he when they decided to leave Scarborough Centre as the only urban growth centre in the 416 without a subway.
 
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