Toronto Lower Simcoe Ramp | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto

[coopEng]

Yeah, I guess I was asking what the pressing need to do it in the summer of 2017 as opposed to the summer of 2018.....it seems a nice project and it will improve the area but it does not seem "urgent" that next year (a year where the Queensway will not be at 1/2 capacity and the subway will be open) would not work.



I did not say they should care about the people of Vaughan (although {and I am not from Vaughan} I hope our regional vision is not that blind that we don't)....but those people from Vaughan are driving down and joining the Gardiner....and contributing to the increased travel times during this construction for the people from Toronto who are also using the road.

I was just giving an example of two other projects that, when finished, would reduce the impact of this ramp closing....and it just seems sometimes that no one (despite the current Mayor's promises in this regard) sits back and says "how are these projects related and what is the best timing/schedule for each".

I really was hoping someone would answer with "nah, your wrong because it has to be done this year because of 'X' "....guess not.

The pressing need is really obvious in the photos which have been posted - this ramp was probably neglected for many years/repair cycles because they knew it was going to be removed. The condition of the structure was terrible and waiting another year to start would present risk (localized spalls causing personal injury or damage, or more significant structural failure). I think the X you are looking for is the condition of the ramp. Ultimately this ramp should have been done the same time they did the last major section of the Gardner repairs when it was already reduced to 2 lanes in each direction - the back would not have increased by removing this ramp as it would have already occurred further west.

 

[darth_freeman]

Great summary and refutation of the fear mongering drivel that often passes for journalism in this city, by Stephen Wickens:

Have Gardiner gridlock fears been ramped to the max?

City staff tell us 1,537 cars were using the old ramp in the busiest 60 minutes of the a.m. rush on an average weekday. That’s less than a quarter of the average number of people who emerge downtown from each of the TTC’s seven core subway stations (Dundas, Queen, King, Union, St. Andrew, Osgoode and St. Patrick). The seven-station peak hour total is 43,295 arrivals (28.2 times the ramp number) (1).

The difference is, this affects a lot more than 1,537 cars in one hour. The daily volume is over 20,000 for this ramp alone, not including all other vehicle traffic that this impacts directly by congesting other roads. It affects all EB & WB Gardiner traffic by increasing travel time on the highway as well as north-south roads to access the city. Essentially all surface vehicle traffic downtown south of Queen is impacted and delayed to some extent. That's 300,000+ cars, trucks, busses, streetcars, and emergency vehicles. And this will be for 8 months.

Sure...traffic will manage, but over simplifying it to try and say just 1,537 cars are impacted is also terrible journalism.

Also, this is a City of Toronto project - not sure why they should be specifically worried about the traffic from Vaughan?

Please, don't pull the suburb card here. It's Toronto's responsibility to minimize conflicts which they clearly failed to do with regards to Queensway,

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

The difference is, this affects a lot more than 1,537 cars in one hour. The daily volume is over 20,000 for this ramp alone, not including all other vehicle traffic that this impacts directly by congesting other roads. It affects all EB & WB Gardiner traffic by increasing travel time on the highway as well as north-south roads to access the city. Essentially all surface vehicle traffic downtown south of Queen is impacted and delayed to some extent. That's 300,000+ cars, trucks, busses, streetcars, and emergency vehicles. And this will be for 8 months.

Sure...traffic will manage, but over simplifying it to try and say just 1,537 cars are impacted is also terrible journalism.,

300K vehicles affected by a meaningful degree? Throwing out claims like to make your case is is precisely the type of overblowing the closure we should avoid.

Please, don't pull the suburb card here. It's Toronto's responsibility to minimize conflicts which they clearly failed to do with regards to Queensway,

It's also Toronto's responsibility to get the project completed as soon as possible, given the years it's on the book and the impact of inflationary pressures on project budget.

AoD

 

[ADRM]

is also terrible journalism.

Did you actually read the article?

 

[tnanos]

Do you think they will ever shorten the offramp that currently exits at Jarvis to say Bay St.? That feels like the next piece of the Gardiner that I can see them fixing next.

 

[coopEng]

The difference is, this affects a lot more than 1,537 cars in one hour. The daily volume is over 20,000 for this ramp alone, not including all other vehicle traffic that this impacts directly by congesting other roads. It affects all EB & WB Gardiner traffic by increasing travel time on the highway as well as north-south roads to access the city. Essentially all surface vehicle traffic downtown south of Queen is impacted and delayed to some extent. That's 300,000+ cars, trucks, busses, streetcars, and emergency vehicles. And this will be for 8 months.

Sure...traffic will manage, but over simplifying it to try and say just 1,537 cars are impacted is also terrible journalism.



Please, don't pull the suburb card here. It's Toronto's responsibility to minimize conflicts which they clearly failed to do with regards to Queensway,

How was my comment a "suburb card"? Toronto has infrastructure repairs to make and they shouldn't be saying, well this subway extension (that may or may not reduce car volumes on the Gardner) better be done before we fix it. My point was the City should complete repairs that are required and deal with them on a case by case basis. In the downtown core area there will always be lots of projects going on that will influence each other - the work on Queensway is a good point - but that cant dictate when work gets done. If the additional 10 to 15 min commute time is such a burden, the existing GO lines have capacity at rush hour, feel free to use them.

 

[DSC]

Do you think they will ever shorten the offramp that currently exits at Jarvis to say Bay St.? That feels like the next piece of the Gardiner that I can see them fixing next.

Yes. The Lower Yonge Precinct Transportation EA looked at that and it recommends: " The Lower Jarvis Street off-ramp from the Gardiner Expressway is relocated to touch down at Yonge Street.". Study (VERY long document is at: http://www.waterfrontoronto.ca/nbe/...&CACHEID=230ad598-5742-4b98-8725-b77c46f76d78

 

[drum118]

April 27

 

[hawc]

Do you think they will ever shorten the offramp that currently exits at Jarvis to say Bay St.?

Th ramp up from Jarvis to Gardiner Eastbound could also be much shorter. Right now if you accelerate hard you can hit almost 170 km/h by the time you merge. That's not necessary.

 

[drum118]

There was talk about 2008 about removing the Bay east ramp and it needs to happen.

Having a ramp to Young St would help in place of Jarvis, but will be a bottle neck all day, let alone at Jarvis.

Again, all you are doing is moving gridlock from one location to another without dealing with the root of the problem in the first place.

 

[Megaton327]

Th ramp up from Jarvis to Gardiner Eastbound could also be much shorter. Right now if you accelerate hard you can hit almost 170 km/h by the time you merge. That's not necessary.

Keep in mind that trucks might use that ramp, they might reach the top of such a long ramp and not even be at 90 yet.

 

[Jasonzed]

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

There was talk about 2008 about removing the Bay east ramp and it needs to happen.

Having a ramp to Young St would help in place of Jarvis, but will be a bottle neck all day, let alone at Jarvis.

All of this presumes that Gardiner East hybrid is a done deal.

 

[drum118]

All of this presumes that Gardiner East hybrid is a done deal.

Its my understanding, the Bay ramp will happen regardless if the hybrid is done or not.

As for the Young ramp, thats a total different story and tie into plans for the area which haven't follow that close.

 

[hawc]

Wow! They are moving so fast! Steel beams are even down. They're not wasting any time.