Toronto Lower Simcoe Ramp | ?m | ?s | City of Toronto

TOareaFan said:
sure....but at Church the things that are largely preventing a link to the lake (and I happen to think that Jarvis and Yonge are close enough that this is not a priority) are a social housing complex and a rail corridor.
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Which is why it is on the books, not a straight up commitment. At some point the TCHC building and the parking garage could be redeveloped to make the project plausible and attractive. Increasing north-south connectivity in the waterfront area should always be a consideration in the plans.

AoD
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Which is why it is on the books, not a straight up commitment. At some point the TCHC building and the parking garage could be redeveloped to make the project plausible and attractive. Increasing north-south connectivity in the waterfront area should always be a consideration in the plans.

AoD
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Exactly. As I noted earlier in this thread, the planning for the new building at 75 The Esplanade is going ahead with this POSSIBLE future project in mind. Now, maybe we should return to the REAL subject of this thread?
 
As someone who drives more than 50% of the time and is impacted by the slower roads into the city this project is causing I really don't have much of a problem with this. Let's face it, we had a very dysfunctional ramp that had the added negative bonus of being a bit of a blight on the area. someone much smarter than me (likely a group of someones much smarter than me....really isn't hard to gather such a group) came up with a new plan/design that they feel will improve the traffic flow and will definitely improve the area's appearance.

The only comment/question I have is....did it have to happen now? Is there some reason it had to happen in the spring/summer/fall of 2017? There may be a reason I just haven't heard why it had to happen now.

It just seems to be one of those things that shows a lack of co-ordination in our project planning. We are adding a congestion worsening project into the mix when the Queensway (one alternate route into the core from the west that might have helped) is reduced to one lane.....we apparently could not wait until that project was finished in December nor could they wait until December when the subway extension to Vaughan opens up and gives those people the more attractive option to avoid their 427/Gardiner commute by car.

I get that whenever you do these things they cause a pain....but lacking a reason this had to be done in the summer of 2017 (if there is one let me know) I think the people planning these things just bring themselves grief. They estimated it would add 10 minutes to rush hour commutes....I think that is because they do that sort of educated guesswork in isolation without considering the other things going on.......this morning (a good weather day with no accidents on the Lakeshore or Gardiner) the "Time to Yonge" sign at the Humber noted that the Gardiner would take 34 minutes to Spadina and the Lake Shore would be 33 minutes......prior to construction those typically say ~25 minutes to Yonge.....so the combined effect of things is adding more than 10 minutes.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Which is why it is on the books, not a straight up commitment. At some point the TCHC building and the parking garage could be redeveloped to make the project plausible and attractive. Increasing north-south connectivity in the waterfront area should always be a consideration in the plans.

AoD
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that's fair....I was just correcting the notion that it was, somehow, the Gardiner and the Lake Shore that was in the way.
 
ADRM said:
The Gardiner and Lake Shore are both unabashed blights on our city.
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The biggest impediment are the railway lands and all those tracks. It's way uglier walking under the gloom of the GO/VIA tracks then walking under the relatively narrow Gardiner or across the equally narrow Lake Shore. Seems to me people just feel the corridors that carry cars are a bigger blight than the ones that carry trains. But physical reality doesn't back that up. If the Gardiner carried commuter trains and the lake shore was nothing but lanes of bike paths and solar powered cars would they still be a blight? The overall industrialness of the area is the biggest problem. Not an elevated expressway. Look at the Gardiner at Dan Leckie Way or by Fort York. Not an issue at all. And not an impediment to anything. Because the land underneath it is so much nicer.
 
hawc said:
The biggest impediment are the railway lands and all those tracks. It's way uglier walking under the gloom of the GO/VIA tracks then walking under the relatively narrow Gardiner or across the equally narrow Lake Shore. Seems to me people just feel the corridors that carry cars are a bigger blight than the ones that carry trains. But physical reality doesn't back that up. If the Gardiner carried commuter trains and the lake shore was nothing but lanes of bike paths and solar powered cars would they still be a blight? The overall industrialness of the area is the biggest problem. Not an elevated expressway. Look at the Gardiner at Dan Leckie Way or by Fort York. Not an issue at all. And not an impediment to anything. Because the land underneath it is so much nicer.
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The fact that one particular blight is bigger than another particular blight is a terrible reason not to do anything about the latter.
 
hawc said:
The biggest impediment are the railway lands and all those tracks. It's way uglier walking under the gloom of the GO/VIA tracks then walking under the relatively narrow Gardiner or across the equally narrow Lake Shore.
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True, if you time the lights right.

I find the delay while waiting 90 seconds to 2 minutes to cross Lake Shore to be the most unpleasant part of the experience in either situation. If Lake Shore had a much shorter light period (45 second like most streets) then Gardiner wouldn't be nearly as "ugly". Standing still with no distractions gives you a lot more time to look at Gardiner; I suppose I'm the reason mirrors are put up near elevators.
 
Great summary and refutation of the fear mongering drivel that often passes for journalism in this city, by Stephen Wickens:

Have Gardiner gridlock fears been ramped to the max?

City staff tell us 1,537 cars were using the old ramp in the busiest 60 minutes of the a.m. rush on an average weekday. That’s less than a quarter of the average number of people who emerge downtown from each of the TTC’s seven core subway stations (Dundas, Queen, King, Union, St. Andrew, Osgoode and St. Patrick). The seven-station peak hour total is 43,295 arrivals (28.2 times the ramp number) (1).
 
TOareaFan said:
As someone who drives more than 50% of the time and is impacted by the slower roads into the city this project is causing I really don't have much of a problem with this. Let's face it, we had a very dysfunctional ramp that had the added negative bonus of being a bit of a blight on the area. someone much smarter than me (likely a group of someones much smarter than me....really isn't hard to gather such a group) came up with a new plan/design that they feel will improve the traffic flow and will definitely improve the area's appearance.

The only comment/question I have is....did it have to happen now? Is there some reason it had to happen in the spring/summer/fall of 2017? There may be a reason I just haven't heard why it had to happen now.

It just seems to be one of those things that shows a lack of co-ordination in our project planning. We are adding a congestion worsening project into the mix when the Queensway (one alternate route into the core from the west that might have helped) is reduced to one lane.....we apparently could not wait until that project was finished in December nor could they wait until December when the subway extension to Vaughan opens up and gives those people the more attractive option to avoid their 427/Gardiner commute by car.

I get that whenever you do these things they cause a pain....but lacking a reason this had to be done in the summer of 2017 (if there is one let me know) I think the people planning these things just bring themselves grief. They estimated it would add 10 minutes to rush hour commutes....I think that is because they do that sort of educated guesswork in isolation without considering the other things going on.......this morning (a good weather day with no accidents on the Lake Shore or Gardiner) the "Time to Yonge" sign at the Humber noted that the Gardiner would take 34 minutes to Spadina and the Lakeshore would be 33 minutes......prior to construction those typically say ~25 minutes to Yonge.....so the combined effect of things is adding more than 10 minutes.
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Just to the point about timing - I'm sure you know we have construction seasons here and you want to complete exterior work when the weather co-operates. Not that i'm suggesting this will be completed on schedule, but toss winter in at the start of the project and it definitely would have finished behind schedule. Also, this is a City of Toronto project - not sure why they should be specifically worried about the traffic from Vaughan? Things will even out, summer traffic is typically the lightest you get on the Gardner - it was designed, approved and now they are doing it. Next opportunity would be Spring 2018, which means another year of maintaining that dump stretch of crumbling concrete.
 
coopEng said:
Just to the point about timing - I'm sure you know we have construction seasons here and you want to complete exterior work when the weather co-operates. Not that i'm suggesting this will be completed on schedule, but toss winter in at the start of the project and it definitely would have finished behind schedule.
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Yeah, I guess I was asking what the pressing need to do it in the summer of 2017 as opposed to the summer of 2018.....it seems a nice project and it will improve the area but it does not seem "urgent" that next year (a year where the Queensway will not be at 1/2 capacity and the subway will be open) would not work.

coopEng said:
Also, this is a City of Toronto project - not sure why they should be specifically worried about the traffic from Vaughan? Things will even out, summer traffic is typically the lightest you get on the Gardner - it was designed, approved and now they are doing it. Next opportunity would be Spring 2018, which means another year of maintaining that dump stretch of crumbling concrete.
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I did not say they should care about the people of Vaughan (although {and I am not from Vaughan} I hope our regional vision is not that blind that we don't)....but those people from Vaughan are driving down and joining the Gardiner....and contributing to the increased travel times during this construction for the people from Toronto who are also using the road.

I was just giving an example of two other projects that, when finished, would reduce the impact of this ramp closing....and it just seems sometimes that no one (despite the current Mayor's promises in this regard) sits back and says "how are these projects related and what is the best timing/schedule for each".

I really was hoping someone would answer with "nah, your wrong because it has to be done this year because of 'X' "....guess not.
 
Today:

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I will be very surprise to see any of the ramps standing come mid June.

I don't know what the plans are for closing Simcoe and York street to remove the sections over them, but the demo of the concrete will be at Simcoe tomorrow.

3 bays of steel beams down.

Still one pier top to be pour on top of the new columns for it, but will not happen until the steel is down and the existing support is removed.

The Rees on Ramp is close during work hours and traffic was backup to Bathurst St and could be further than that at Noon. Even at 4 pm, the backup was as far as the eye could see at Jarvis.

Photos will be on line in a few days and can't for some reason transfer the videos from the camera to the 2 software I have for them. Otherwise, would be posting the videos now.
 
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