Toronto is one of the loneliest places in Canada

[Admiral Beez]

Toronto is one of the loneliest places in Canada according to a new report

The Toronto Foundation report paints a sombre picture of post-pandemic life where crisis is the new normal, and the high cost of housing, homelessness and climate change have converged into a “polycrisis.”

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/xu9mB

Do we agree with this? I’m in my early 50s and live in Toronto. Even though my children have left for university , and my job has moved almost entirely to wfh, I don’t find myself feeling lonely. First of all, I’m married for over 25 years, so my wife and I do most things together. Then there’s my motorcycle club that meets every Sunday for breakfast and once a month for a bbq or dinner out, and my model boat making club that meets every month, you can follow my build here, https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30...eller-1150-kit-bashing-the-heller-le-superbe/. Next, after Sunday motorcycle breakfast I attend the local Anglican Church, where I volunteer on the board. Lastly, I’m active in my community, walking the dog twice a day and always chatting with fellow Cabbagetowners at the pubs or park. I think you just need to make an effort.

 

[Northern Light]

Toronto is one of the loneliest places in Canada according to a new report

The Toronto Foundation report paints a sombre picture of post-pandemic life where crisis is the new normal, and the high cost of housing, homelessness and climate change have converged into a “polycrisis.”

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/xu9mB

Do we agree with this? I’m in my early 50s and live in Toronto. Even though my children have left for university , and my job has moved almost entirely to wfh, I don’t find myself feeling lonely. First of all, I’m married for over 25 years, so my wife and I do most things together. Then there’s my motorcycle club that meets every Sunday for breakfast and once a month for a bbq or dinner out, and my model boat making club that meets every month, you can follow my build here, https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30...eller-1150-kit-bashing-the-heller-le-superbe/. Next, after Sunday motorcycle breakfast I attend the local Anglican Church, where I volunteer on the board. Lastly, I’m active in my community, walking the dog twice a day and always chatting with fellow Cabbagetowners at the pubs or park. I think you just need to make an effort.

First note, women tend to feel loneliness more than men.

That's not to suggest men don't experience that; but in the mean women are more social creatures and miss interacting w/others more than men. The difference isn't huge, but it is statistically significant.

Gender and Age Differences in Loneliness: Evidence for People without and with Disabilities

This study examines the relationships between loneliness, gender, and age for people without and with disabilities (moderate versus severe) in Germany. Using data taken from the German Socio-Economic Panel (SOEP) for the years 2013 and 2017 and using ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Second note, you're married, by definition you have someone with whom you share your life and that will make you less susceptible to loneliness, on average, vs those who are single/live alone.

Third note, you note your own behavior in respect of combating loneliness; Church, volunteering, dog walking, hobbies.

Most people are not religious in the sense of regularly attending their local church/synagogue/temple/mosque

Owning a dog is expensive to many people, as are many hobbies.

*****

I say the above without being at all critical, but simply to point that your life circumstances make it comparatively easy not to be lonely.

Where people w/o a companion, or for whom money is a barrier to a social hobby, or pet ownership etc etc. may be more susceptible

You're also in a single-family home neighbourhood, which is not representative of most Torontonians either, who are a bit less likely to know their neighbours in multi-res buildings.

 

[Bayer]

Toronto is one of the loneliest places in Canada according to a new report

The Toronto Foundation report paints a sombre picture of post-pandemic life where crisis is the new normal, and the high cost of housing, homelessness and climate change have converged into a “polycrisis.”

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/xu9mB

Do we agree with this? I’m in my early 50s and live in Toronto. Even though my children have left for university , and my job has moved almost entirely to wfh, I don’t find myself feeling lonely. First of all, I’m married for over 25 years, so my wife and I do most things together. Then there’s my motorcycle club that meets every Sunday for breakfast and once a month for a bbq or dinner out, and my model boat making club that meets every month, you can follow my build here, https://modelshipworld.com/topic/30...eller-1150-kit-bashing-the-heller-le-superbe/. Next, after Sunday motorcycle breakfast I attend the local Anglican Church, where I volunteer on the board. Lastly, I’m active in my community, walking the dog twice a day and always chatting with fellow Cabbagetowners at the pubs or park. I think you just need to make an effort.

Being an introvert, staying at home during the pandemic was a godsend. I found it restful and relaxing, and right now I'm perfectly happy. Obviously I have no kids, I've been in business with a friend for 30 years with no staff and no need to meet clients at all, virtually or otherwise, so not many socializing opportunites there, which suits me fine. Never been part of the "gay community" (even the word "community" makes me cringe). And I have an older husband who remains in good shape, but still extremely vulnerable to COVID due to his vascular condition; we only eat out on patios, so we're done for the season, and we never go to any indoor events; I even told an aunt who wanted to visit and treats COVID as flippantly as most people that it was out of the question. I'm often the lone masker in public and I have been viewing my fellow citizens with growing disdain for this reason, but I am not a misanthrope just yet! I find all this depression and anxiety puzzling. I suppose I'm built for our times!

 

[Admiral Beez]

Second note, you're married, by definition you have someone with whom you share your life and that will make you less susceptible to loneliness...

Oh, there are lots of lonely married people.

lonely married - Google Search

But otherwise, good points.

 

[Towered]

Oh, there are lots of lonely married people.

lonely married - Google Search

But otherwise, good points.

I'm one of them (although I'm not technically married)!

 

[lenaitch]

I'm no social anthropologist but I agree with NL's analysis of The Admiral's circumstances. Financial and social comfort can go along way to enhancing one's sense of well-being. I've always found Toronto, like most other cities I have been in with the possible exception of St, John's, to be 'cold'. Long before recent circumstances, it was not uncommon for people to not know their neighbours; particularly but not exclusively in apartments.

My dad was born and raised on a farm but lived in Toronto from his late 20s on, starting in the 1930s. He could start a conversation with a post. Not that he was particularly outgoing, but that's the way he grew up in the country. I inherited a lot of that but, increasingly, found that trying to have a casual conversation with a store clerk, person on the street, etc. became fruitless. Sometimes it could be a language barrier but it seems that everybody has become so defensive that the next stranger they meet is a coke-enraged killer.

The rise of social media probably doesn't help. For many, how much of their social interaction is on a screen vs face-to-face. I think social media, touted as the the answer to bring us all together has done just the opposite. It's too easy to retreat into its anonymity.

Toronto has always been an immigrant city. In the past, it was heavily weighted to Europeans who found a lot of their community in the comfort of their common language, church, etc.; hence, 'Little Italy,' Little Poland', etc. Is that not happening now?

For sure, lack of money can be barrier to joining things like sports and other clubs, but I wonder whether even if they were free, how much of an impact that would make. Team sports and physical activity seem to have lost their allure. Many rely heavily of volunteer for coaches, etc. and between background checks and helicopter parents, how many are even interested?

 

[Admiral Beez]

I've always found Toronto, like most other cities I have been in with the possible exception of St, John's, to be 'cold'.

My dad was born and raised on a farm but lived in Toronto from his late 20s on, starting in the 1930s. He could start a conversation with a post. Not that he was particularly outgoing, but that's the way he grew up in the country.

I lived in Fredericton, NB from 2004 to 2007. I found Maritimers superficially friendly, but not welcoming. Whereas in downtown Toronto, I find people superficially wary but more welcoming once the initial checks that you’re not a grifter, beggar or psycho are addressed.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The rise of social media probably doesn't help. For many, how much of their social interaction is on a screen vs face-to-face. I think social media, touted as the the answer to bring us all together has done just the opposite. It's too easy to retreat into its anonymity.

I don’t think Gen-X like me is so invested in social media.

 

[lenaitch]

I lived in Fredericton, NB from 2004 to 2007. I found Maritimers superficially friendly, but not welcoming. Whereas in downtown Toronto, I find people superficially wary but more welcoming once the initial checks that you’re not a grifter, beggar or psycho are addressed.

You've mentioned that before and it surprises me. I've only experienced eastern Canada as a tourist but know a number of people who moved down there cold (not returning expats or family) and all seem to have been welcomed into their various communities. When moving between urban and rural areas and probably between regions, there is an element of 'do a the Romans do'; i.e. ya gotta act like a Maritimer, because you have to work double hard at overcoming being from Toronto.

 

[Admiral Beez]

First note, women tend to feel loneliness more than men.

I think a lot of single straight men in their forties and up, including the newly divorced are wary of becoming legally obliged to anyone new, especially to single mothers. My wife‘s friend, a recently widowed man in his forties started dating a single mom with two kids. After a couple years of dating, they all moved into his house for one year, until they broke up. The mother sued my wife’s friend for financial support, and won! Now he has to pay support for the next five years, longer than they were dating. My cousin-in-law, a TPS officer is recently divorced has begun dating, and his single mother girlfriend, who has a ton of debt and financial Issues is now pressuring him to sell his house so they can combine their assets. I‘ve told him hell no, that’s a fast route to losing half your money and stuff, and if you’re lonely, come join my motorcycle club and hang with folks who want nothing from you other than conversation.

So, it is no surprise that women are increasingly lonely. And no, I’m not some MGTOW fanboy; being in a committed relationship for over thirty years. And several of my divorced straight male friends have begun new longterm, exclusive relationships, but these are men in their sixties or older dating childless women of similar age, with each partner keeping their own primary residences.

 

[DSC]

You've mentioned that before and it surprises me. I've only experienced eastern Canada as a tourist but know a number of people who moved down there cold (not returning expats or family) and all seem to have been welcomed into their various communities. When moving between urban and rural areas and probably between regions, there is an element of 'do a the Romans do'; i.e. ya gotta act like a Maritimer, because you have to work double hard at overcoming being from Toronto.

I lived in Halifax - which has/had more of a small-town vibe - when I first moved to Canada and agree that Maritimers are (or were) very welcoming.

 

[Bayer]

I think a lot of single straight men in their forties and up, including the newly divorced are wary of becoming legally obliged to anyone new, especially to single mothers. My wife‘s friend, a recently widowed man in his forties started dating a single mom with two kids. After a couple years of dating, they all moved into his house for one year, until they broke up. The mother sued my wife’s friend for financial support, and won! Now he has to pay support for the next five years, longer than they were dating. My cousin-in-law, a TPS officer is recently divorced has begun dating, and his single mother girlfriend, who has a ton of debt and financial Issues is now pressuring him to sell his house so they can combine their assets. I‘ve told him hell no, that’s a fast route to losing half your money and stuff, and if you’re lonely, come join my motorcycle club and hang with folks who want nothing from you other than conversation.

So, it is no surprise that women are increasingly lonely. And no, I’m not some MGTOW fanboy; being in a committed relationship for over thirty years. And several of my divorced straight male friends have begun new longterm, exclusive relationships, but these are men in their sixties or older dating childless women of similar age, with each partner keeping their own primary residences.

My husband, who while in the US infantry married a woman soldier who took off with another woman, married another woman years later and stayed with her for 25 years; he thinks opposite-sex relationships are more complicated. Obviously he's bi and most people don't have a choice. But when I divorced my ex, there was no conflict, and we had similar incomes, so the division of assets was informal; I wasn't even there when he moved out and I didn't care what he took or didn't, I could just replace stuff I wanted to keep.

Now I'm 59 and my husband is 71. He's my number 3 - I have never had any casual relationships. If he departs before I do, he won't be replaced.

 

[Admiral Beez]

My husband, who while in the US infantry married a woman soldier who took off with another woman, married another woman years later and stayed with her for 25 years...

My cousin in the TPS had a similar experience. His wife changed teams, and left him.

 

[DreamyCloud]

Being an introvert, staying at home during the pandemic was a godsend. I found it restful and relaxing, and right now I'm perfectly happy. Obviously I have no kids, I've been in business with a friend for 30 years with no staff and no need to meet clients at all, virtually or otherwise, so not many socializing opportunites there, which suits me fine. Never been part of the "gay community" (even the word "community" makes me cringe). And I have an older husband who remains in good shape, but still extremely vulnerable to COVID due to his vascular condition; we only eat out on patios, so we're done for the season, and we never go to any indoor events; I even told an aunt who wanted to visit and treats COVID as flippantly as most people that it was out of the question. I'm often the lone masker in public and I have been viewing my fellow citizens with growing disdain for this reason, but I am not a misanthrope just yet! I find all this depression and anxiety puzzling. I suppose I'm built for our times!

I agree, being an introvert myself, that working at home is a godsend. I am perfectly happy despite having no kids yet, but I still have my dog and my wife with me. I am also a member of a church, but not very active at that. For me, being lonely does not depend on the country or community but on the individual. For those who don’t attend church, unmarried and don’t have a dog can still find happiness in things that matter to them or are passionate about whether career, family, fitness or volunteer activities. It is important to support one another, even introverts need support sometimes.

 

[afransen]

My husband, who while in the US infantry married a woman soldier who took off with another woman, married another woman years later and stayed with her for 25 years; he thinks opposite-sex relationships are more complicated. Obviously he's bi and most people don't have a choice. But when I divorced my ex, there was no conflict, and we had similar incomes, so the division of assets was informal; I wasn't even there when he moved out and I didn't care what he took or didn't, I could just replace stuff I wanted to keep.

Now I'm 59 and my husband is 71. He's my number 3 - I have never had any casual relationships. If he departs before I do, he won't be replaced.

My experience is similar! Women are more difficult than men, but the heart wants what the heart wants.