mgl
Active Member
What is the operating agreement with Vaughan? If Toronto subsidizes the TTC but trips will now originate in Vaughan, will Vaughan be chipping in some part of the TTC subsidy?
What is the operating agreement with Vaughan? If Toronto subsidizes the TTC but trips will now originate in Vaughan, will Vaughan be chipping in some part of the TTC subsidy?
What is the operating agreement with Vaughan? If Toronto subsidizes the TTC but trips will now originate in Vaughan, will Vaughan be chipping in some part of the TTC subsidy?
Last I heard, Vaughan was paying 0% of the operating and ongoing maintenance fees for the extension, no TTC subsidy or anything.
Millions of trips are already originating outside of Toronto and using the TTC. The fact it travels a few KMs past its border doesn't change this fact. The TTC will end up owning all the land, assets and property that this extension is being built upon. So each station is essentially technically TTC's property and not York Region's...if you want to play semantics.
Owning depreciating assets isn't exactly much to write home about.
AoD
Why would York Region subsidize something that they get no say in how it operates? They don't get to decide the fares? There's no incentive to subsidize it because that would essentially be giving money to an agency that has time and again shown that York Region is not a priority. Toronto doesn't subsidize bus routes that go into Toronto from the suburbs, it even prevents them from picking people up! How come we should change the rules when Toronto operates out of their boundaries?
Owning depreciating assets isn't exactly much to write home about.
AoD
Last I heard, Vaughan was paying 0% of the operating and ongoing maintenance fees for the extension, no TTC subsidy or anything.
Why would York Region subsidize something that they get no say in how it operates? They don't get to decide the fares? There's no incentive to subsidize it because that would essentially be giving money to an agency that has time and again shown that York Region is not a priority. Toronto doesn't subsidize bus routes that go into Toronto from the suburbs, it even prevents them from picking people up! How come we should change the rules when Toronto operates out of their boundaries?
Hey on the bright side, if the TTC figures it's losing money like crazy at leastt tey won't be obliged to continue operating the line and can just stop.
Because York Region are massively beneficiating from having the subway go into their territory...otherwise, why would they fight so hard for it? Think about all the jobs, new residents, new investments and overall land value that will go up? If York wants a say, paying their share of the O&M costs is a great place to start.Why would York Region subsidize something that they get no say in how it operates?
No, TTC stands for Toronto Transit Commission, just like we don't get a say on fare for YRTThey don't get to decide the fares?
York Region is not within the mandate of the TTC. Their mandate is for the City of Toronto alone. They were force to operate the subway into Vaughan and they will be doing just that, but at the same time, I don't understand why York should be exempt for paying the extra O&M cost for an extension that TTC wanted no part of. That extension O&M is paid for by the Toronto citizen through their taxes to get trains into the middle of nowhere.There's no incentive to subsidize it because that would essentially be giving money to an agency that has time and again shown that York Region is not a priority.
Toronto doesn't subsidize bus routes that go into Toronto from the suburbs, it even prevents them from picking people up! How come we should change the rules when Toronto operates out of their boundaries?
Hey on the bright side, if the TTC figures it's losing money like crazy at leastt tey won't be obliged to continue operating the line and can just stop.
Land in Vaughan is a depreciating asset? Someone should tell SmartCentres!
TTC also gets 100% of the parking revenue from lots in York Region that don't exist today.
Operating a subway is very very expensive, there's a reason why not every major cities in the world have them. By the way, if it's so cheap, why isn't York Region building their own subways with their own logo on them? (Like New Jersey PATH). Maybe it's because they figured that with York Region ridership, operating that subway would bankrupt the region...right?For all the hullabaloo and fooferaw, I doubt the net operating subsidy to go from Pioneer Village to VMC will be remotely what people here are guessing.
Are you for real? The decrease in ridership is also due to inefficiencies of the TTC network not allowing it to give an optimal service to its citizens. How is overcrowding the subway further would be a good thing??? That would drop the quality of the service even further. TTC needs expansion and to be up to date with their backlog of repairs, not more 905 riders. How many reports do you need to understand that the network cant take it??Given how TTC ridership in the city is DROPPING, making it easier for 905ers to get on the system might actually be a growth strategy, eh?
York Region is the relevant municipality not Vaughan, but that's true per the contract - as in the AGREEMENT between two parties- that was established.
Comparing bus service to subway service doesn't even warrant a response
Operating a subway is very very expensive, there's a reason why not every major cities in the world have them. By the way, if it's so cheap, why isn't York Region building their own subways with their own logo on them? (Like New Jersey PATH).
Are you for real? The decrease in ridership is also due to inefficiencies of the TTC network not allowing it to give an optimal service to its citizens.
TTC needs expansion and to be up to date with their backlog of repairs, not more 905 riders. How many reports do you need to understand that the network cant take it??
I think when you group all the regional buses from YRT, DRT, MiWay, and Brampton that go into and out of Toronto I think it's an entirely fair comparison. None of those routes ask for subsidies even though they cross a municipal boundary. Just because a subway is a higher-order transit line and costs a lot of money to build doesn't mean all points of prior logic for x-border travel is tossed out the window.
Maybe you haven't noticed but there's a river separating NYC and NJ and literally not an inch between Toronto and york Region.
But, no, you're right - the solution to our transit woes is to have everybody build their own teeny pieces. it's what we've been missing. We don't even need them to connect. They should eliminate the Pioneer village Station, have York Region build to Steeles and leave a gap between Toronto's subway and York Region's. That's what riders want and need, totally.
Not that your question was a serious one but the obvious answer is that the system - the network - has to cross the border. We can quibble over funding arrangements but the idea that a suburb should build its own subway - and that's somehow proof the city's subway going there makes no sense - is absurd. More strawmen than I can count.