innsertnamehere
Superstar
anyone planning to go to the meeting tonight?
Toronto GO Transit: Davenport Diamond Grade Separation | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx
- Thread starter vic
- Start date
Allandale25
Senior Member
I'll likely be there. Metrolinx will be presenting and they've given an opportunity for Options 4 Davenport, the anti-bridge citizens group, to present. Should be interesting. The local MPP will be there. We'll see if the attendance is higher than the meeting held in Weston many years ago for the Georgetown South Project where they had to postpone the meeting because the venue was overcapacity.
vic
Senior Member
The DPNC is a big space. Last time, it was quite full.
I'm planning to be there.
I'm planning to be there.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
I'll bring my own popcorn.
salsa
Senior Member
salsa
Senior Member
W. K. Lis
Superstar
Guess the guy doesn't like to have a 5-10 minute service when he's not using it. However, when needs to use it, he gets upset having to wait those 5-10 minutes just as he arrives on the platform.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Three important updates tonight: Metrolinx increased the project budget for the bridge from $140M to $210M to enhance the design and mitigation measures. The revised bridge design was shown tonight. As noted before, the tunnel would cost between $500M and $600M.
There would be a cap of 36 diesel trains per day over the bridge until RER is implemented. I believe the date mentioned is 2022. If the bridge is done by 2018, that's four years. Many people who spoke tonight said they are getting "10 years" of diesel trains because they don't "trust" Metrolinx or the province to deliver it by 2022. Comparisons were made to Metrolinx promising UP electrification, but I believe it was certain Ministers/MPPs that mused about electrificationot timing and not staff at Metrolinx.
The question of three tracks versus two wasn't raised in the public Q and A.
MPP Cristina Martins was asked if she would support a delay in the TPAP (the study process looking at the bridge) and let the Ministers and Premier know. She said yes. The amount of time of the delay wasn't asked in the question or provided in the answer.
I'd estimate it could take a month (or more) for the Premier/Ministers to figure out what to do next. May also be interesting to see if other MPPs get involved because Metrolinx has said they can't delay the bridge any longer in order to build RER on the Barrie Line within the timeline they've provided. If the TPAP is delayed more GO service is delayed.
There would be a cap of 36 diesel trains per day over the bridge until RER is implemented. I believe the date mentioned is 2022. If the bridge is done by 2018, that's four years. Many people who spoke tonight said they are getting "10 years" of diesel trains because they don't "trust" Metrolinx or the province to deliver it by 2022. Comparisons were made to Metrolinx promising UP electrification, but I believe it was certain Ministers/MPPs that mused about electrificationot timing and not staff at Metrolinx.
The question of three tracks versus two wasn't raised in the public Q and A.
MPP Cristina Martins was asked if she would support a delay in the TPAP (the study process looking at the bridge) and let the Ministers and Premier know. She said yes. The amount of time of the delay wasn't asked in the question or provided in the answer.
I'd estimate it could take a month (or more) for the Premier/Ministers to figure out what to do next. May also be interesting to see if other MPPs get involved because Metrolinx has said they can't delay the bridge any longer in order to build RER on the Barrie Line within the timeline they've provided. If the TPAP is delayed more GO service is delayed.
crs1026
Superstar
It's remarkable how these dates, and the additional $70M in funding, are pulled out of thin air when it's convenient. I don't recall any document in the public domain that lays out a project plan with this timetable or funding commitment. RER really is smoke and mirrors at this point.
I'm disappointed in MPP Martins for falling into the trap and supporting a delay to the TPAP. Considering it is the process for getting facts and plans disclosed and debated, and for engaging the community, it should proceed even if just to continue the dialog. Clearly the community hopes we will just stick our heads back in the sand and go away. For the sake of our transit initiatives, this can't happen. If a tunnel - which takes longer to build - is a serious possibility, all the more reason why the decision has to be made immediately. And if it's not, giving the community a false hope of killing the bridge is a foolish political blunder.
- Paul
I'm disappointed in MPP Martins for falling into the trap and supporting a delay to the TPAP. Considering it is the process for getting facts and plans disclosed and debated, and for engaging the community, it should proceed even if just to continue the dialog. Clearly the community hopes we will just stick our heads back in the sand and go away. For the sake of our transit initiatives, this can't happen. If a tunnel - which takes longer to build - is a serious possibility, all the more reason why the decision has to be made immediately. And if it's not, giving the community a false hope of killing the bridge is a foolish political blunder.
- Paul
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BurlOak
Senior Member
Wasting money on stainless steel coverings does not accomplish much. The shorter bridge seems to be the benefit of the new plan. A shorter bridge should cost less, so I am not sure what they are wasting their money on.
I didn't expect that staff would bring up the fact that they lost credibility by not delivering electrification before PanAm.
(This can be done by 2018? That's a lesson for all the subway proponents on the benefits of elevation).
I imagine that the two bridges can be connected in future for a third track - at least any prudent designer would do that.
Next step seem to be to promise a station at St. Clair. If we expect citizens to get a bridge in their backyards, at least we can do is give them a stop. Otherwise they can just watch the people from York Region and Barrie flying past over their heads.
vic
Senior Member
Video of the whole meeting, in 9 parts on Youtube:
This link will bring up the whole playlist: https://goo.gl/6qOtcu
This link will bring up the whole playlist: https://goo.gl/6qOtcu
valvenis
New Member
I was there as well.
There were actually two different rooms, not just one. The larger room upstairs was more of a circus with the aforementioned bell, a large dose of NIMBY-ism, lots of clapping and was generally noisier. It reminded me of the Simpsons episode about monorails: “we want a tunnel because we want a tunnel!” “We don’t trust you (Metrolinx) to come up with transit plans but we trust city council 's recommendation!”
IMO - the people upstairs from Metrolinx were unorganized and intimidated by the crowd.
The one guy downstairs from Metrolinx was better prepared and really knew what he was talking about. He talked about everything from fare integration, to grade levels, the negotiations underway to connect the UPX station at Dundas and Bloor to Dundas West Station, etc.
He mentioned that the two places have been shortlisted for a station are at St. Clair West & Caledonia and Lansdowne and Bloor. We`ll find out in a few months what they decide.
There were actually two different rooms, not just one. The larger room upstairs was more of a circus with the aforementioned bell, a large dose of NIMBY-ism, lots of clapping and was generally noisier. It reminded me of the Simpsons episode about monorails: “we want a tunnel because we want a tunnel!” “We don’t trust you (Metrolinx) to come up with transit plans but we trust city council 's recommendation!”
IMO - the people upstairs from Metrolinx were unorganized and intimidated by the crowd.
The one guy downstairs from Metrolinx was better prepared and really knew what he was talking about. He talked about everything from fare integration, to grade levels, the negotiations underway to connect the UPX station at Dundas and Bloor to Dundas West Station, etc.
He mentioned that the two places have been shortlisted for a station are at St. Clair West & Caledonia and Lansdowne and Bloor. We`ll find out in a few months what they decide.
flyinggoats
New Member
Maybe we should thank the City of Brampton for the additional $70M ?
AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
The amount of money (70M) really isn't THAT much in the context of multibillion dollar infastructure projects.
AoD
crs1026
Superstar
Seventy million is not a lot in the scope of Ontario's health care budget, either....but would the CEO of Sick Kids Hopsital have the authority to commit to spending $70M on a new operating room without consulting their Board? I suspect not.
It's a big enough expense that there ought to be a paper trail of approvals and justifications and an appropriate level of oversight. Will this be minuted at the ML Board level? Did a DM sign off - in either Transportation or Ministry of Finance?
Considering we don't see RER spending decisions minuted at all, I find the whole thing pretty fast and loose.
- Paul