Toronto Four Seasons Hotel and Private Residences Toronto | 203.9m | 52s | Lifetime | a—A

The thing about yorkville that always appealed to me is how narrow the streets are... it makes it a pleasure to walk around ( not to drive) but, really, and having shops lining the streets, walking along larger streets with shops doesn't have the same feeling... like walking along yonge, or bloor... in This way Yorkville is unique... and I'm not sure wether or not tall condos will destroy that effect.... probably.
 
jaborandi said:
Can't ever recall feeling "European charmed" in Yorkville. I always thought of it as Toronto charm, nothing more, nothing less.
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Well how about this. Yorkville has a more European charm than American charm. You don't walk through Yorkville thinking about how it reminds you of Detroit or Houston. - You probably say to yourself..I wish the rest of the City had a similar scale and feel. - The one thing most can say about Yorkville is that it is uniform in design. Even if it was not originally planned to be that way.
 
I also don't get the descriptions of Yorkville as "European". Its vibe has very little to do with anything from Europe. It's cozy and small-scaled, tucked in among towers, vibrant and labyrinthine. I feel that the tucked-in feel is a huge part of the vibe. Places with a similar vibe are probably more common in Asia and North America than in Europe.
 
BobBob said:
I also don't get the descriptions of Yorkville as "European". Its vibe has very little to do with anything from Europe. It's cozy and small-scaled, tucked in among towers, vibrant and labyrinthine. I feel that the tucked-in feel is a huge part of the vibe. Places with a similar vibe are probably more common in Asia and North America than in Europe.
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In North America small scale communities are the exception, not the rule. In Europe they are the norm. Which is likely why people make this comparision.

There is no way Yorkville is the rule for urban planning in North America.
 
The small-scale vibe of the old yorkville has nothing to do with European views; rather it's a reflection of what yorkville was at one time: a small town/village. Get out of the gta and discover many thousands of small villages and towns around ontario that have the same "feel" as yorkville (although imho these rural villages are the real thing.) Places like Fergus, Elora, Paris, Hanover, Conestoga, Atwood, Brussels and Chesley Ontario are examples of what Yorkville once was. Remember, most of Toronto and the GTA is essentially a collection of small towns connected by hideous expressways, suburban tract homes and industrial wasteland.
 
urbandreamer said:
The small-scale vibe of the old yorkville has nothing to do with European views; rather it's a reflection of what yorkville was at one time: a small town/village. Get out of the gta and discover many thousands of small villages and towns around ontario that have the same "feel" as yorkville (although imho these rural villages are the real thing.) Places like Fergus, Elora, Paris, Hanover, Conestoga, Atwood, Brussels and Chesley Ontario are examples of what Yorkville once was. Remember, most of Toronto and the GTA is essentially a collection of small towns connected by hideous expressways, suburban tract homes and industrial wasteland.
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Yes but the small scale communities you mention were initally modeled on towns in Europe, no? - (i.e main street, small scale buildings, pedestrian friendly & built before the automobile era)

Modern North American cities have very little in common with Europe. North American cities came of age during the automobile era. The (NA) cities have been built and designed around cars with elevated expressways and massive freeways crossing the breadth of the communities within . That's why people are stating Yorkville "feels European" - (i.e small scale street, buildings & pedestrian friendly) . The Yorkville area has little of what people here on this continent are familiar with, in regards to big city urban planning.
 
I disagree. Yorkville is merely a playground for the rich and the wannabe rich. Its small scale mixed with large scale buildings isn't unique to north america. Houston, Austin, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Montreal, Vancouver, Seattle, Denver, Boulder, St Louis, New Orleans, and many hundreds--actually thousands!--more cities across NA have similar neighbourhoods. Most started as small little nabes or villages, grew into the fabric of the city, became artist/hippy havens, as the artists/hippies became wealthier they sold some of their properties to cheap developers, kept some to lease to little cafes, shops etc. Nothing unique about it whatsoever.
What is unique to Toronto? Perhaps Kensington Market, the vast tracts of relatively pure Victorian housing, the odd mix of gentrified and grungy housing and retail strips side by side.
Now back to the Four Seasons: while beautiful big buildings like these are the current fixation (and I admit to liking tall buildings) they are slowly destroying the small-scale charm many love about Yorkville. Soon there will be only Hazelton Ave and a few museum-style relics of the past surrounded by highrises.
The small towns of Ontario reflect more American frontier-style developments than anything in Europe; most were cheaply constructed by spec builders and dreamers with whatever could be found. The only difference between small town Ontario and Toronto? Population and ambition.
 
urbandreamer said:
I disagree. Yorkville is merely a playground for the rich and the wannabe rich.
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It didn't start out that way. The villiage of Yorkville was gentrified in the 1970's with the arrival of the Manulife Centre and the Hyatt (now Four Season) Hotel. And the removal of the hippies that had occupied the area in the preceeding years.

urbandreamer said:
It's small scale mixed with large scale buildings isn't unique to north america. Houston, Austin, Chicago, NYC, Boston, Montreal, Vancouver, Seattle, Denver, Boulder, St Louis, New Orleans, and many hundreds--actually thousands!--more cities across NA have similar neighbourhoods.
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Nobody (including myself) never said it was in unique to North America. They had stated it had a "European feel".


urbandreamer said:
Most started as small little nabes or villages, grew into the fabric of the city, became artist/hippy havens, as the artists/hippies became wealthier they sold some of their properties to cheap developers, kept some to lease to little cafes, shops etc. Nothing unique about it whatsoever.
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Agian I never stated it was unique. Someone had posted before me and stated it felt more European than North American. Yorkville is not the design rule of thumb when it comes to large scale North American cities. Most North American cities are designed and built around accomodating car culture. I dare you to find a Kennedy Rd in Belgium or Switzerland.

urbandreamer said:
What is unique to Toronto? Perhaps Kensington Market, the vast tracts of relatively pure Victorian housing, the odd mix of gentrified and grungy housing and retail strips side by side.
The small towns of Ontario reflect more American frontier-style developments than anything in Europe; most were cheaply constructed by spec builders and dreamers with whatever could be found. The only difference between small town Ontario and Toronto? Population and ambition.
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Most of the Ontario communities you mentioned in your above post were probably settled before there was any widespread settlement of the American western frontier.(ie. by a 100 years at least) - They were more likely modelled on communities in Europe ( i.e England, Scotland and Germany ) where most of the first immigrants to Ontario came from in the first place.

...

I will now jump on the bandwagon and state for the record.. "Yorkville has a more European Feel than North American Feel"
 
My final word on this OT thread: Toronto doesn't feel European at all; British perhaps (and as a person with English roots let me tell you: we English are not European! no matter what the press and German-centric EU may say.)

Now old Montreal--hell yeah that feels "old" European!

The rest of Toronto has more in common with a medium-sized mid-western city than anything in Europe.

Okay, now back to Four Seasons. What's Isadore saying about it on the society party circuit? What's the latest Aa gossip? Which sales agent sold the biggest most expensive suites to date? Is there gonna be a continuation of retail on the Yorkville side of this development?
 
interesting discussion here... Caltrane thanks for trying to defend my original post!

I put "European" in quotes because whatever the proper word would have been just wasnt coming to mind at the time. I think quite a few people picked up on what I meant having to do with intimate size and scale rather than with literal style. And even then I was thinking English, my apologies to urbandreamer if that is offensive to lump the two together! I spent some time this past summer in the small English village of Shifnal, Shropshire... probably about 2000 - 3000 people... I would suggest it was very much like the origins of Yorkville, apart from the roads being more twisty and turny rather than on our modern grid.

Certainly it is preferable that new development in this area takes place first on empty lots, then replacing tacky stuff from the 70's/80's and not at all at the expense of historic buildings. Really its one of modern man's great failings... the very desirablity of a location becomes its downfall as the great rush of people completely change the fabric of the place. Hopefully there is an overall vision for maintaining much of the small scale feel.
 
BobBob said:
I also don't get the descriptions of Yorkville as "European". Its vibe has very little to do with anything from Europe. It's cozy and small-scaled, tucked in among towers, vibrant and labyrinthine. I feel that the tucked-in feel is a huge part of the vibe. Places with a similar vibe are probably more common in Asia and North America than in Europe.
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Yorkville has two faces. The residents are very much villagers in a large metropolis but it's the weekenders with their flashy cars, noxious odors and extended stares that give it a very bad name. Hopefully the emerging class of new residents will help change that image.
 
I've disentangled and spun-off 18 posts that developed out of a discussion of the Midwestern qualities of Toronto to a separate thread in The General Discussion section.

It's an interesting read, but it veered way off of the Four Seasons and Yorkville topic, so off it goes to live on it's own.

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Sales centre is fenced off. Dumpster on site along with a couple yellow beams. Could be moving the sales centre or just starting demo for construction.

JG
 
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