M II A II R II K
Senior Member
And plus we have no sun belt to escape too, in fact quite the opposite.
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Toronto falling from grace? Yeah, right. Canada's No. 1 city is soaring
- Thread starter M II A II R II K
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denfromoakvillemilton
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2 things.
1) I agree
2) I wish the alcohol laws were reformed and the last call pushed back the 4 or 5 am. I wish we had more clubs.
1) I agree
2) I wish the alcohol laws were reformed and the last call pushed back the 4 or 5 am. I wish we had more clubs.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Plus age laws changed so that all kids who have graduated high school can drink. They will drink in university / college regardless, you may as well make it legal. (so make it 19, or your high school diploma) I.E., when you graduate you are given a card showing legality, or something.
nfitz
Superstar
Don't kids drink in high school anymore?
M.R.Victor
Active Member
I really agree with the comments regarding alcohol. I truly feel that we, as a society, are sophisticated enough to handle alcohol responsibly, and the laws surrounding the sale and consumption of alcohol in ontario are draconian.
On top of that, I'd like to see a more liberal use of public space. I feel that Toronto is maturing to the point of being able to sustain a healthy amount of street culture and public civic life, though that is held back, to some extent, by what I feel are overbearing regulations. For example, I don't agree that Drummers in Exhile should fight for each and every permit that allows them to congregate in Trinity Bellwoods Park. Same goes for the Cherry Beach parties, which are shut down at 1 am each time, despite there being virtually nobody around to be bothered by the noise. Cops partolling Bellevue Square for people drinking in the park is another example. Restaurants that have patios directly below residential buildings, such as those around St. Lawrence Market, must begin to shut down their outside seating around 11 or 12. And the list goes on.
I understand that some of these activities may be something of a bother to the people who happen to live in these areas, but I have very little simpathy towards those who choose to live downtown yet are not willing to embrace all that downtown life entails. The reality is that Toronto is an economic and cultural powerhouse, and the it is inevitable that the city will only become more lively and more interesting as time goes on. I feel that is it impractical and counter-productive to discourage non-traditional ways of using and enjoying urban space. This is a good thing, and something that I feel we should embrace.
On top of that, I'd like to see a more liberal use of public space. I feel that Toronto is maturing to the point of being able to sustain a healthy amount of street culture and public civic life, though that is held back, to some extent, by what I feel are overbearing regulations. For example, I don't agree that Drummers in Exhile should fight for each and every permit that allows them to congregate in Trinity Bellwoods Park. Same goes for the Cherry Beach parties, which are shut down at 1 am each time, despite there being virtually nobody around to be bothered by the noise. Cops partolling Bellevue Square for people drinking in the park is another example. Restaurants that have patios directly below residential buildings, such as those around St. Lawrence Market, must begin to shut down their outside seating around 11 or 12. And the list goes on.
I understand that some of these activities may be something of a bother to the people who happen to live in these areas, but I have very little simpathy towards those who choose to live downtown yet are not willing to embrace all that downtown life entails. The reality is that Toronto is an economic and cultural powerhouse, and the it is inevitable that the city will only become more lively and more interesting as time goes on. I feel that is it impractical and counter-productive to discourage non-traditional ways of using and enjoying urban space. This is a good thing, and something that I feel we should embrace.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
^^ I totally agree! We need to chill out a bit and let people have fun. The less regulation, the better.
bleu
Banned
Alcohol control is destined to be a losing battle. It serves no purpose except to make people feel they are morally superior and more responsible but in fact it has practically no effect on youth consumption.
Many countries don't have a legal age for drinking but it doesn't seem they have a more serious alcohol abuse problem. You set a legal age of 19, then it all of a suddent becomes the enticing forbidden apple which kids at 14-18 will try every way to get.
What's wrong with a 17 year old boy drinking some beer?
Many countries don't have a legal age for drinking but it doesn't seem they have a more serious alcohol abuse problem. You set a legal age of 19, then it all of a suddent becomes the enticing forbidden apple which kids at 14-18 will try every way to get.
What's wrong with a 17 year old boy drinking some beer?
M.R.Victor
Active Member
Having grown up in an eastern european family, I've been exposed to alcohol and people drinking since the age of 4. I had my first taste of alcohol at 6. I began being allowed to have a drink here and there since the age of 14. I'd say there's virtually no difference in my drinking habits between me and my canadian (anglo-saxon) counterparts, and I did what everybody does: drank quite heavily in university, especially in my 1st and 2nd years, and then tapered off slightly ever since. I am neither a more responsible or less responsible drinker than average. I think that the argument about becoming a more responsible drinker over time if one is gradually exposed to alchol is a bit of bull as well. I really don't think it makes a difference, either way, and my argument against drinking laws is that: 1. people drink anyway 2. it's best not to keep up the charade, pretending that our laws are actually useful.
I imagine a lot of money is made via the LCBO, and a lot of those folks have a vested interest in the status quo, namely keeping their jobs. Entry level pay for an LCBO employee is 16-bucks an hour. I doubt convenience store clerks make that much. A lot of money is likely being made from the licensing system, I imagine, and bars and clubs get slapped with pretty hefty fines if they do not comply. I also imagine it being politically lucrative to err on the side of the "morally superior" in order to secure votes, as the "think of the children" argument tends to work with a large majority of those who vote. I haven't heard either the conservatives or the liberals talk about relaxing liquor laws, ever.
I imagine a lot of money is made via the LCBO, and a lot of those folks have a vested interest in the status quo, namely keeping their jobs. Entry level pay for an LCBO employee is 16-bucks an hour. I doubt convenience store clerks make that much. A lot of money is likely being made from the licensing system, I imagine, and bars and clubs get slapped with pretty hefty fines if they do not comply. I also imagine it being politically lucrative to err on the side of the "morally superior" in order to secure votes, as the "think of the children" argument tends to work with a large majority of those who vote. I haven't heard either the conservatives or the liberals talk about relaxing liquor laws, ever.
bleu
Banned
well said.
everyone is simply pretending that our system is superior and something is working.
what I found more ironic is that politicians didn't even attempt the solove the issue from its source, if they do want to "protect our kids". The source? The mass media, TV, movie, music which tells people 24/7 that drinking is a cool thing, and that a party can't be a party without gallons of alcohol. People are exposed to such BS for so long that everyone thinks it is true. From where I grew up, we never had such gargage cultural exposure. The media never tells us from the age of 9 that drinking is cool, or sex is cool. Teenagers simply don't consider getting drunk and doing stupid things afterward is particularly fun. We were not interested in it although you can drink as much as want even at the age of 11.
Can anyone hear imagine a fun party without alcohol? If one can't, he is already brainwashed. I simply don't understand the association of alcohol with fun, excitement, or happiness, or sadness. While in here, it seems a natural thing to drink when one needs to have fun, or when one is particularly depressed. Dumped by your girlfriend, go to the bar and get drunk; Watching world cup can't be done without a six pack. I mean, what's the correlation here? This is the source of all thr drinking problem, not a trivial thing such as legal age.
OttoSchloss
Active Member
Responsible drinking begins at home. It's a parental discretion and not one that needs to be laid at the feet of government or the media or society as a whole.
denfromoakvillemilton
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We also need to market the city better. You would be surprised at how many pepole still mention Montreal as the first city of Canada, or still think Montreal is the largest city. We need blitz marketing.
ssiguy2
Senior Member
I thought one of the many things Toronto bitched at Queen's Park about was things like setting bar hours? When they got the City of Toronto Act wasn't the ability of Toronto to extend bar openings and alcohol serving times handed over to the city? If so, after bitching at Queen's Park about such things why haven't the hours been changed.
Last call in BC is 2:00 AM but downtown Vancouver is was extended to 3:00 AM.
Last call in BC is 2:00 AM but downtown Vancouver is was extended to 3:00 AM.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
All bars in Toronto should be allowed to serve alcohol until at least 4am. I never go out before midnight. (after living in Montreal for 10 years) A 2am closing time is just way too early for me.
denfromoakvillemilton
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I so agree. I think Montreal is 4am as is NYC, Miami and Las Vegas has no closing time. I also want a whole zone just for clubs, or open up downtown at night for clubs. Of course the Subway has to move to a 24 hour schedule instead of the 16 hour one right now.
OttoSchloss
Active Member
Montreal is 3. NYC is 4 and in the 80s and early 90s, this was fluid -it was possible to get a bar to serve you beyond 4. New Orleans doesn't have a closing time either and like Vegas no open container law. Now I don't want the streets to smell like vomit but really, 2 a.m. is a little ridiculous.
California fyi is also 2 a.m.