Toronto Emerald Park Condos | 128.92m | 40s | Bazis | Rosario Varacalli

[sunnyraytoronto]

It's weird how the increase in property taxes from these new condos don't get put towards whatever section 37 goes to but I get your point. Also low Canadian dollar, 3 billion dollar budget deficit forecast, oil jobs gone... the government needs money!!!

Yea I'm quite skeptical too about them opening there again however this is recent news. I don't think they will take several months to renovate since they have huge in-house construction teams.

Not a lot of ethnic groups participate in local politics since they don't speak English very well and they come from non-democratic or corrupt countries where its a waste of time to participate in local politics. Give it 1-2 generations.

Hmm Business Improvement Area? I'll look into it, sounds interesting.

About Newtonbrook since subway terminates at Finch if they try to build a condo mall there it might end up just like World-On-Yonge. They are looking to expand the Yonge subway all the way to Richmond Hill but thats in at least 8 years time. I've heard its being built by a very reputable firm though.

Its amazing what can happen in 25 years!

Section 37 money and property tax revenue are two totally different items,.... Section 37 is strictly for community benefit (but it's held in trust by the city for the community where the development happened),... in addition, Section 37 money can only be spent in the ward where the development occured (usually, unless it's near the ward boundaries and the councillors involved agree to share). Property tax revenue goes to the city's general accounts,... and it could be spent for anything, anywhere in the city,...

North York Centre is really the goose that layed the golden egg,... when land hosting single residential housing stock get converted to residential condos,... each dollar of property tax revenue from the single residential house becomes about $40-50 from the residential condos! In other words, each 100m 30 storey condo tower in North York Centre represents about $2million in property tax revenue,... annually, each and every year,.... Multiply that by the 60+ new condo towers built in North York Centre since 1998 amalgamation,.... and that's a lot of new property tax revenue,... then add the previous high density developments,... we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars, annually in property tax revenue to the city,... but we don't see that money coming back in terms of improved local infrastructures, schools, parks, etc,... most of that money goes to other parts of the city!

Wait,... so you're saying new immigrants ethnic folks don't want to participate in community issues due to their experiences with corrupt government in their previous countries,.... but they come here and willingly deal with EmeraldPark developer, Bazis!?!?! ;p


8 years to build a subway in Toronto,... Even the Spadina subway extension which was announced around 2004 won't be completed until 2017 at the earliest,... it's late and over-budget,... already the World's 2nd most expensive subway line per km right after London's Canary Wharf tube line which went under rivers multiple time,... Toronto's Spadina subway extension went mainly under open spaces at Downsview Airport, York University and open fields of 905,... no rivers involved!

Since Finch station opened in 1974, Toronto council never wanted it to go any further because they don't want to do anything that would benefit 905-ers! Now it's RichmondHill-YorkRegion pushing for Yonge subway extension north but Toronto and TTC using it as leverage to get province to pay for DowntownReliefLine, SmartTrack, YongeReliefLine or whatever flavour of the day new subway line. Officially, Toronto is working on the timetable that the Yonge Subway line won't be extended for another 30 years.

 

[innsertnamehere]

lol Spadina is far from the second most expensive globally. Far, far away.

NYC is spending roughly triple the per km rate for their second avenue subway extension, LA is looking at $500 million per km, etc.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

My Spadina subway extension cost data might be 5 years old,... but Spadina is catching up fast! ;p

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

EmeraldPark Section 37 Community Benefit costs,....

EmeraldPark was one of the first residential condos to sell before they got permission to build. Bazis started selling EmeraldPark in July 2008 just before they put in development application! EmeraldPark Final Report from City Planning came in 2010 and was approved by council or North York Community council in late 2010,... this is when Section 37 community benefits are finalized! Then Bazis had to pay the full amount of money required to rebuild Lansing United Church community centre in advance (city holds money in trust on behalf of church) before city will grant EmeraldPark building permits needed to start construction! This way, city is ensured community will receive the community benefits agreed upon VS having Bazis build EmeraldPark and then skip town without building Lansing United Church community centre. EmeraldPark started construction early 2011. In addition, Lansing United Church also had to meet criteria in their development application process before the city release the money to them.

Thus, EmeraldPark condo buyers from 2008 weren't charged Section 37 cost because developer didn't know what they were in 2008,... but developer knew by 2010 and paid most of it in advance on condo buyers behalf,... and of course, kept charging interest on that amount!,.... and now they're starting to get more of a sticker shock!

NOTE: Many condo are now sold before developer get city approval. Some like Beacon are sold AFTER condo tower get city approval and thus, they know how much Section 37 will be charged when buying condo.


What's the exact amount of EmeraldPark Section 37 Community Benefits and where is that money going,... thanks to the Section 37 links posted by DSC in post# 11325 of the Aura thread,....
http://www1.toronto.ca/City Of Toronto/City Clerks/Elections/Candidates/Files/s_37_45_community_benefitsreportward_all_1998to10142014.pdf
http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2015/pg/bgrd/backgroundfile-83196.pdf


This is generally when City Planning's Final Report on EmeraldPark project was approved by City Council or North York Community Council or OMB appeal:

Date: 12/16/2010
Bylaw 23-2011
4726-4750 Yonge St., 9-31 Bogert Ave., 2-28 Poyntz Ave. and 49 Bogert Avenue

+ A monetary contribution ($6,742,734.00), equal to the market value of the 10,440 square metres of gross floor area obtained through the incentive for social facility space *** This is to pay for the Lansing United Church community centre
+ 1.5 m2/unit indoor recreation amenity area
+ min. 136 m2 pedestrian connection to TTC transit station. *** I'm guessing, about $6-7million cost since HullmarkCentre's 2 subway entrances cost $16million but their North TTC entrance is more complex and EmeraldPark TTC entrance is more comparable to HullmarkCentre South TTC entrance.
+ $3.8M for off-site parkland acquisition *** Could this go towards expansion of AlbertStanding Park when Lansing United Church community centre opens?
+ public art @1% g.c.c.
+ Secured as legal convenience: transfer of density from Lansing United Church lands
+ retail/service uses fronting on Yonge St.
+ bicycle rooms and parking spaces *** visitor bike parking in loading dock area - stupid!

COMMITMENTS:
+ $265,635.09 for public art at North York Arts Park to EDC Capital Budget (2014 Capital Budget EX37.1) OPA By-law 22-2011.
+ Funds for offsite parkland acquisition not in staff report or by-law
+ added by Council for inclusion in S.37 agreement. SFZ


The following additional Section 45 funds were obtained a few years later because EmeraldPark developer squeezed in 2 more storeys to West Tower (by chopping ceiling height for the rest of the tower)

Date: 10/09/2013
File: A615/13NY
$270,000.00
4726-4728 Yonge St.,9-31 Bogert Ave., 2-28 Poyntz Ave.

+ $270,000 contribution to be used for community benefits payble upon the expiry of the appeal period for these variances. *** I'm guessing this was categorized as Section 45 because Section 37 was already finalized ,.... anyways, I do recall the councillor was very giddy about squeezing this amount from the developer!

 

[Edward Skira]

North York Centre is really the goose that layed the golden egg,... when land hosting single residential housing stock get converted to residential condos,... each dollar of property tax revenue from the single residential house becomes about $40-50 from the residential condos! In other words, each 100m 30 storey condo tower in North York Centre represents about $2million in property tax revenue,... annually, each and every year,.... Multiply that by the 60+ new condo towers built in North York Centre since 1998 amalgamation,.... and that's a lot of new property tax revenue,... then add the previous high density developments,... we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars, annually in property tax revenue to the city,... but we don't see that money coming back in terms of improved local infrastructures, schools, parks, etc,... most of that money goes to other parts of the city!

Nothing? Really? How much did the Sheppard subway cost again?

 

[innsertnamehere]

or the new ring road around it, or the new parks along those ring roads, the new park at yonge and finch, the renovated Gibson Park. etc.

 

[Towered]

(heck, their idea of ethnic food was a Chinese Chop Suey place - Hint: Real Chinese people don't eat Chop Suey nor any place that has fortune cookies!)

Funny, the last few times I went to Mandarin, the vast majority of the clientele was Asian.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Nothing? Really? How much did the Sheppard subway cost again?

Huh,.. so all the new city property tax revenue generated from all the new residential condo developments along the Yonge corridor in North York,... gives us the Sheppard STUBway line??? First, most people along the Yonge Corridor in North York rarely (if ever) uses the Sheppard STUBway line (I take public transit as much as possible but for every 1 time I'm on the Sheppard STUBway line, there's a hundred times I'm on the Yonge Subway line). If you've ever been on the Sheppard STUBway line, you'd know very few passengers get on or off at any of the in between subway station like Bayview, Bassarion, Leslie,... the vast majority are traveling the entire STUBway line from DonMills station to Yonge and back,... it mainly services the folks in northeast North York, northwest Scarborough and southern Markham,... not those who already live along the Yonge corridor.

Sheppard STUBway line cost just under $1Billion when it was completed in 2002
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_4_Sheppard

The vast majority of subway cost is paid for not by the city of Toronto but by the Province. Traditionally, it's generally the city, provincial and federal government each paying a equal third of the cost; but for the last few decades the Feds have refused such funding formula,... whatever the Feds chip in will be far short of their 1/3 share and the difference will usually be covered by the Province. I don't have the break down of Sheppard STUBway funding,... but here's the breakdown of the Spadina Subway Extension funding:

Remember previous Ontario Finance Minister Greg Sorbara getting $2.8 billion (Ontario $1.1 BILLION + Canada $698 million + Toronto $600 milion + York Region $400 million) for the 8.6 km 6 station Spadina subway extension to York University (where Sorbara is a Member of the Board of Alumni that governs York University) and extended to Sorbara's,... err, I mean Vaughan Corporate Centre (Hwy 7 & Jane/Vaughan Costco Centre -land of big box stores), where Greg Sorbara was the Ontario MPP. \\

Let's say the city's share of the 2002 $1Billion Sheppard STUBway line was 1/3,... ie $333million in 2002 dollars,... which would amount to about $435million in today's dollar terms. Note: I used Bank of Canada inflation calculator but used 2001 to 2015 since 2016 isn't accepted yet.
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/rates/related/inflation-calculator/

There's maybe about 20 new existing condo towers along Sheppard between Bayview to Victoria Park that can be attributed to the Sheppard STUBway (not including another 15 or so planned for Concorde-Alex ParkPlace). Each standard 100m 30 storey condo tower brings in an extra $2million in property tax revenue annually to the city,.... it'll take along time for the Sheppard STUBway to be justified on a financial viewpoint,.... and they're looking at converting it to LRT if extension to Scarborough is LRT,.... unless that becomes real Subway when DOUG Ford gets elected mayor!

Anyways, Sheppard westward extension to Downsview will never happen,... too expensive for one extra subway stop at Bathurst. Thus, Yonge & Sheppard won't ever be a full subway interchange like Yonge & Bloor.

Bottomline,... the vast majority of property tax revenue generated from all the high density development along Yonge Corridor in North York goes into city general revenue stream and pay for items outside of North York Centre,....

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

or the new ring road around it, or the new parks along those ring roads, the new park at yonge and finch, the renovated Gibson Park. etc.

None of those items were paid for using property tax revenue,.....

Ring Roads of Beecroft and Doris were paid for with Section 42 & 45 Development fees (the $25,000 charged to each new condo unit),... and some from Section 37 Community Benefits - usually for property acquisition/donation from developers. BTW, the fact that the ring road isn't really a ring!,... ie it doesn't extend south to connect properly to Highway 401,... and it wasn't extended north fast enough (high density leakage outside of Ring Roads) shows how poorly this funding formula is working,....

New parks along ring road are paid for by Section 37 Community benefits,.... when development exceed height, density and need zoning change, they pay a higher premium in Section 37 community benefit fees. Yes, including that over-glorifed bus-stop near southeast corner of Yonge & Finch,... near Olive. Again, the renovated Gibson Park,.... was previously a private rose garden park (was originally to be site of ESSO/Imperial Oil head office until they decided on Alberta) but as part of Section 37 for twin 42-storey Gibson Square condo towers, the GibsonPark was donated to city as Section 37 Community Benefits,.... BTW, I give the city a piece of my mind on GibsonPark because it means we taxpayers need to pay to maintain it,... the thing is GibsonSquare used up all the development density of this park on GibsonSquare,.... so they can't build anything here on GibsonPark anyways!!! Better for city to negotiate for public realm,.... full public access on private property,.... so GibsonSquare maintain GibsonPark and is responsible for their cost!,.... instead the city basically give GibsonSquare condo owners a discount on their condo maintenance fees! Note: park at northeast corner of Sheppard & Doris is private park with all development density used up,... owners can't build anything on it,... so let them take care of it,... as a park!

Oh, and you forgot to list some of the new community centre like MitchellField (EmpressWalk Section 37) as was Edithvale (Section 37 from other developments),.... rebuilt schools like McKee elementary public school and EarlHaig Secondary (EmpressWalk Section 37),....

Again, go through the list of items I posted previously on what EmeraldPark Section 37 community benefit paid for,.... $6.7 million for new community centre at church across the street,... $3.8 million for new parkland acquisition,....


Keep in mind, Section 37 community benefit amount to a one time only payment of 5-10% (at best) of property value depending on negotiating skill/power of councillor and city staff,..... but that's really chump change - just a drop in the bucket,... the real money is property tax money!!!,.... property tax revenue is about 1% of property value collected annually, year after year, it's ongoing!,.... and that's where the real revenue generation is for the city,... that's why city promotes high density development,... it's all about collecting more property tax revenue!!!!

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Anyone,... err, I mean,... Any-Body wants to guess,...
- Where exactly this photo was taken?
- When,.. what year,... approximately?
- Why was it taken?
- Any historical significance,....

 

[UD2]

let me try

Yonge just south of Avondale circa 1970s just before the Subway was extended to Sheppard?

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

let me try

Yonge just south of Avondale circa 1970s just before the Subway was extended to Sheppard?

UD2, you got the time period correct,.. about 1970,... and mentioning subway was a bit significant - I'll explain why later. Yes, you're correct that this is Yonge Street,... but wrong on which block.

At about that time, Yonge Street south of Avondale looked like (facing eastward):

Some of the structures on the north-east corner of Yonge & Avondale still exists,... now Tridel sales office, TD bank, Enterprise Car Rental, Spa former Car Radio, IceCream then FishnChip then Greek now EggsSmart,...

East side of Yonge south of Avondale all gone (including Maclean-Hunter publishing warehouse) to make room for Avondale Condominium community,....

When you said, Yonge south of Avondale,.... you might have meant Florence Ave which is the name the same street west of Yonge Street,.... called Avondale Ave east of Yonge Street. Note: "FLO" condo at northeast corner of Avondale Ave & Bales Ave. Anyways,.... here is photo from that time period of west side of Yonge Street south of Florence Ave,....

This block still generally looks the same today,... with the L&G General Autobody shop recently converted to a CarStar franchise - but the same family still owns it. The 2 storey building is now for sale at $10 million asking price (4800 Yonge - easily 5-6 times bigger property, parking lot at southwest corner of Yonge&Sheppard sold to Menkes for $12.7million - a bargain!),... it's in North York Secondary Plan but could probably get a 10 storey condo mid-rise would be tough due to transition to the houses directly to the west. I'm assuming this is the 2-storey structure that got you confused with the white 2-storey structure in the original photo,....

Anyways,.... does anyone have a guess of which block on Yonge Street is pictured in that original photo I photed yesterday,..... why was it taken and historical?,..... any-body,.... Nooobody????

 

[Torontovibe]

Funny, the last few times I went to Mandarin, the vast majority of the clientele was Asian.

Yep, I go to Mandarin and like the place. Every time I go, I see the place full of mainly Asians, so anybody who says that Asians don't go to Mandarin, obviously, does not go there. (and is clueless)

 

[Edward Skira]

Anyways,.... does anyone have a guess of which block on Yonge Street is pictured in that original photo I photed yesterday,..... why was it taken and historical?,..... any-body,.... Nooobody????

I grew up in the area and remember all of the stuff you posted in your second batch yesterday. Maclean-Hunter, Jerrett etc. The first is trickier but I'll take a guess. South west corner of Yonge and Sheppard. And of course Mel Lastman's Bad Boy store.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Edward, that's a very good guess,... but incorrect.

Here's a photo of part of that block in southwest corner of Yonge & Sheppard looking from Bogert Ave half (Intercon Security/ProfessionalEngineers building in background). Photo shows Bogert Restaurant,... previous site of popular greasy spoon Orange Bowl restaurant. I think this photo was taken in mid-late 1980s before most of the block was demolished for Nestle Building phase 1 completed in 1994,.... but office market tanked before they could start on phase 2,.... which is now site of Menkes' 4800 Yonge 49 storey tombstone proposal.

Yes, part of the significance of the original photo is the BadBoy store(s),... it looked like there was one at first and then they expanded to next door, and then in 1968 as window signage states, BadBoy was moving across the street,.... into Willowdale Plaza (southeast corner of Yonge & Sheppard) that hosted the GrandUnion/Steinberg's/Miracle/Dominion/Metro supermarket along with NationalGym, BlockBusters, FabricLand,... and now site for HullmarkCentre.

This is what Willowdale Plaza looked like in 1968,.... so obviously Bad Boy store was moving to better facilities,... moving up as was Mel Lastman!

In 1955 Mel Lastman started opening up Furniture stores throughout Toronto,... first one was on Weston Road, Kennedy & Eglinton, North York, etc,.... started consolidating them under his Bad Boy nickname in 1968,.... the original photo shows Mel Lastman's North York Bad Boy store in 1968,... while Lastman was just started in politics as Controller in North York in 1969,... he became North York mayor in 1973 until amalgamation in 1998 then became first mayor of amalgamated Toronto.

Anyone wants to guess which block of Yonge Street is shown in the original photo (shown above) with the Mel Lastman BadBoy store? Lots of hints,.... none of those building structure exist today,... but if you look closely, you'll see huge wooden electrical poles serving the side streets,... which are still there!!! And most people in the area should notice them,.... since most electrical wires along Yonge Street has been buried and hydro poles along side streets are usually concrete,.... not like these towering prehistoric wooden relics!