Toronto Eaton Centre (Ongoing Renewal) | ?m | ?s | Cadillac Fairview | Zeidler

[Translude15]

But let's not confuse function with aesthetics.

Functionally, the NYT development does add density where it is sorely needed. But Daniels is not known for any aesthetic prowess. They have been guilty of some of the most laughable, historicist attempts in the GTA. They are purely market driven, which is why they try to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

My advice would be to not spend so much energy trying to defend your position on this, but instead use it as an opportunity to grow by questioning your beliefs instead.

We can start by being logical about it....you might ask yourself why most of the people who like this stuff have the least amount of knowledge and experience with architecture and design, while the people who have the most knowledge and experience with architecture and design will be almost unanimous in being of the opposite opinion? The biggest mistake people make is that they assume such things are purely subjective "opinion", when in fact, an empirical position can be applied. Not to say I'd want to get into a debate of good art vs bad art here.

That's an excellent point freshcutgrass. I've learned quite a lot over the course of several years reading and participating within this forum. Although I don't consider myself well-versed in the field of architecture or urban form, I have come to appreciate the views of many senior-esque members. A few years back, I made a pretty ignorant, juvenile statement and was promptly criticized by adma. I'll admit I wasn't pleased, however, referring to your mention of "growing up and questioning your beliefs," I see that situation as a case in point.

There seems to be a popularized notion in this part of the world that "newness" is synonymous with progress, and that "oldness" or preserving the past, is archaic, unimportant and an impediment to progress. Architecturally speaking, this runs true constantly within the GTA. People gripe about the unimportance of hand rails and small aesthetics of the Eaton's Centre, but these features are significant in the contextualization of the place. CF's profit- driven efforts of revitalization blatantly disregards the integrity of the Eaton's Centre. In the grand scheme of things, what's more important? "Newness" or architectural integrity? This quest for newness provokes a continual cycle of change and destruction. With regards to the Eaton's Centre, if it wasn't broke in the first place, then why fix it? This revitalization process is a short-sighted one.

 

[Irishmonk]

^ +1

 

[snyberTO]

I agree that the interior renovations are mediocre (at best). But, I really wish they would spend some money correcting those olde-timey brick facades on Yonge street. I cant imagine anything more hokey. I understand that the mall doesnt want too many people out enjoying the street, but still, couldn't the exterior have some architectural integrity? It's like the mall is hiding behind a poorly made curtain when it could show itself off as a mammoth spectacle.

 

[Mississauga Slim]

Actually, it was only in the 1990s that they spent a whole lot of money to build those hokey fake old-timey facades. It had more architectural integrity before, although many people at the time objected that the original design was hostile to the street. The cheesy facade thing was just one of many amendments along the EC's gradual transformation from unique and exciting architectural experience, to lowest common denominator generic shopping mall.

 

[Bayer]

I'd say the riveted white metal housing around the escalators are gonna need to be changed to nice plain "modern" stainless steel.

The escalators have already been reclad in white (not sure of the material, but I don't think it is metal), with a rectangular opening containing coloured LEDs. As an office tenant here I am not impressed with the "renovations".

 

[snyberTO]

I don’t entirely remember the old exterior, but I recall a scaffold tower with some s-shaped wind-activated whirly gigs and an overall 70s Ontario Place feel. I wish they hadn’t mucked it up especially with something so mundane. Too bad it was updated when fitting in was more important than standing out.

Seeing as most of the businesses dont use their yonge street entrances, its a huge blank canvas - it would be a great place for some imaginative demonstration of green technology or a façade that is responsive to the environment. Or some grand architectural gesture. Maybe a do-over could also give them a few more floors of office/retail space looking out over yonge street (those big windows up there with a few dusty mannequins just doesn’t cut it).

 

[low_bidder]

Service Desk

We just finished the Service Desk... Notice how it is incorporated (part of) the railing.

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Haters can cut the design to pieces if you wish.

The workmanship is flawless

 

[APTA-2048]

I don’t entirely remember the old exterior, but I recall a scaffold tower with some s-shaped wind-activated whirly gigs and an overall 70s Ontario Place feel. I wish they hadn’t mucked it up especially with something so mundane. Too bad it was updated when fitting in was more important than standing out.

I do like how the Yonge Street side looked before. it looked more open and interactive.

 

[Northern Magus]

I do like how the Yonge Street side looked before. it looked more open and interactive.

While I agree it better reflected the aesthetic integrity of the rest of the EC, and it looks flattering from these angles, I remember it well and it was a dead zone.

I wish the 90s facades were better done -- except for Roots, which I think was done right -- but I think overall they were definitely a step in the right direction.

Had Cadillac Fairview retained Zeidler to do the job, we probably would have ended up with something more satisfying.

 

[adma]

Had Cadillac Fairview retained Zeidler to do the job, we probably would have ended up with something more satisfying.

I thought Zeidler *did* do the job--believe it or not.

Incidentally, that first postcard image was obviously an pre-completion artist's rendition. (Notice how the Dundas tower's skeletal rather than streamlined-horizontal.)

 

[pw20]

I thought Zeidler *did* do the job--believe it or not.

Incidentally, that first postcard image was obviously an pre-completion artist's rendition. (Notice how the Dundas tower's skeletal rather than streamlined-horizontal.)

Part of the problem is that the TEC runs parralel to Yonge Street. It was built to effectively bring Yonge Street inside (which it has done well). But because the TEC is missing a strong East-West corridor there is no reason to funnel pedestrian traffic onto Yonge Street.

Compare the Centre Eaton and PMT in Montreal. Those interior malls don't compete with St Catharine's. Rather they bring traffic to the street.

A better renovation, although a larger one, would see an east-west corridor built through the mid section of the mall, perhaps with a connection to the East Side of Yonge via the two abandoned bank buildings... (wild idea).

PPL's traffic patterns in relation to the orientation of the mall ensure that there really is no reason to head over the street (Old Thyme facades or modern facades) wouldn't have helped that situation.

 

[UD2]

yeah I don't like the be criticial. But I'm really not in love with the railings at all.

 

[Solaris]

I must say having revisited the recently renovated malls (Eaton Centre, Fairview, Yorkdale, and now Scarborough Town Centre), EC acutally did the worst job in terms of 'refreshing' the retail environment, to a tourist/visitor, there is nothing new and refreshing about the NEWLY renovated EC .... on the contrarary Yorkdale and Scarborough Town Centre has done exceptionally well in their design and it looks spectacular in my opinion ~

 

[Tulse]

That may be true, but those of a historical bent would have been even more upset if EC had gone for a radical redesign. I thought the goal was, in part, to not look particularly different from the earlier design.

 

[TonyV]

Part of the problem is that the TEC runs parralel to Yonge Street. It was built to effectively bring Yonge Street inside (which it has done well). But because the TEC is missing a strong East-West corridor there is no reason to funnel pedestrian traffic onto Yonge Street.

Compare the Centre Eaton and PMT in Montreal. Those interior malls don't compete with St Catharine's. Rather they bring traffic to the street.

A better renovation, although a larger one, would see an east-west corridor built through the mid section of the mall, perhaps with a connection to the East Side of Yonge via the two abandoned bank buildings... (wild idea).

PPL's traffic patterns in relation to the orientation of the mall ensure that there really is no reason to head over the street (Old Thyme facades or modern facades) wouldn't have helped that situation.

I sure like your ideas. I think you are one of the few people to show some taste.