Toronto DNA3 | ?m | 15s | Canderel | Graziani + Corazza

junctionist said:
I'd think that many would still want a car for occasional use. It's obviously convenient for larger shopping trips, weekend trips, and longer vacations. Besides, King Street is used by people from a wide range of neighbourhoods. But I know what you're getting at, that the emerging urban neighbourhood is better off with businesses which are useful to locals on regular basis and some more density.
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Yeah...what you said...about what I said :p

Not good for property values.
 
simuls said:
A car dealership in that location, while maybe appropriate 10 years ago, is completely out of whack now and quite frankly Volvo is insulting the intelligence of the people who live in the area specifically because they don't have to own a car. I hope it goes under...and fast. I'd rather have the empty parking lot.
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Whats living in the area have to do with owning or not owning a car.Cars are made to go places not to drive around in circles in your hood.I personally think its OK to lease short term to a commercial business which will attract people to the area than some dead zone empty parking lot.

Times are tough right now and as soon as the economy turns around say a year or two they will most likley develop that lot.
 
Though I hate car dealerships as much as the next guy, I think this is a wise, pragmatic and reasonable decision by all involved. They could have easily turned this into just a parking lot, instead there will be a dealership that will contribute to the local economy until DNA3 is viable. And this is probably the first and last time I applaud a car dealership.:rolleyes:
 
Automation Gallery said:
Whats living in the area have to do with owning or not owning a car.Cars are made to go places not to drive around in circles in your hood.I personally think its OK to lease short term to a commercial business which will attract people to the area than some dead zone empty parking lot.

Times are tough right now and as soon as the economy turns around say a year or two they will most likley develop that lot.
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You're quite right that living in an area has nothing to do with owning or not owning a car, but have you ever seen an attractive urban area with a car dealership in it? It's always a gaping hole on the streetscape that seems to suck life away from a space - more so than if it was just empty (think Toyota on Queen East, Porsche on Front, Mercedes on Dundas, etc.). At least now some people use the lot for skateboarding and ballhockey - a sort of do-for-yourself urban park. And I question how much "business" a dealership brings to an area - that's why most of them are in clusters in the middle of nowhere with almost no amenities around - they're not needed. At most, Starbucks might sell a few more lattes.

Call me an extremist but when we're trying to get people onto transit and create density and neighbourhoods, the last thing the core needs is something that assists in neither of those goals. Plus, I haven't seen any info that suggests it's a short term lease and I've never before heard of a "temporary" car dealership. Do we even know that Canderel is indeed the purchaser. It's not listed as one of their commercial properties on their website and I can't find a listing for 1030 King General Partners Inc., anywhere.

This area of King West needs something on the street that invites lingering and engagement with business and neighbours. Right now, it's an enclave of condos with dry cleaners, dentists, GNC, etc. and you either have to go south to Liberty Village or North to West Queen West (granted not far either way) to get the feeling that your in anything close to a neighbourhood. I just think it could've been better used and the city should be encouraging a different type of development.
 
simuls said:
You're quite right that living in an area has nothing to do with owning or not owning a car, but have you ever seen an attractive urban area with a car dealership in it?
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Sure. The dealership I bought my car from: Mini Downtown.

The New Infinity showroom on Eastern isn't horrendous either. Finally dealerships are realizing that they don't need to keep a giant lot full of vehicles downtown - they can store them in the boonies and just deliver as needed.

They've been doing this in Europe for years now; treating car dealerships as boutique retail locations. I wish we had more car dealerships like Mini downtown, would make a nice change from clothes and furniture when going on a shopping stroll :)
 
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Yeah, I don't think there is a volvo dealer downtown...this isn't really for the neighbourhood but the city centre as a whole. As city fills in the dealerships will move further out. Toyota on Front is one i'd like to see go.
 
When I took the Dundas car home the other week there was a big party going on in the newly-renovated Mercedes dealership. The place was ablaze with light and full of people. I was tempted to get off and check it out.

If anything, sleek and beautiful car dealerships are what set the architectural tone for the lower Don Valley, on both sides of the river.
 
Urban Shocker said:
When I took the Dundas car home the other week there was a big party going on in the newly-renovated Mercedes dealership. The place was ablaze with light and full of people. I was tempted to get off and check it out.

If anything, sleek and beautiful car dealerships are what set the architectural tone for the lower Don Valley, on both sides of the river.
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Come on Shocker, what you were witnessing was a one off. It's not like people stroll by the Mercedes dealership and decide to stay for awhile, mingle with new friends, and head down the street to Riverdale Farm ;) It was acting more like a social hall in Burlington that's dead 95% of the time but is alive once in a blue moon.

And I can't see how they set the architectural tone, unless you're driving down the DVP, and then we have have a serious disconnect. The BMW dealership, while beautiful from a distance and while inside, does nothing to connect to the city around it and hasn't influenced any buildings or new business in the area that I can think of, and the Mercedes dealership is the same. It's buildings like the Broadview lofts and the collection of restaurants east of Broadview that are really setting the tone for the area, same on River. No one walks to the BMW dealership for fun and to see what's going on in that hood because there is no "hood" to speak of.

And TKTKTK, I stand corrected (well, I'm sitting technically) and wholeheartedly agree with you about the MINI dealership, it is beautiful and interacts with the streetscape well. A Volvo dealership that looked and integrated itself like that, surrounded by other businesses, I would more than welcome. I guess it's the suburban visuals and aesthetic of the dealership that bugs me more than anything. Reminds me of Winnipeg.
 
Regardless of whether or not it was a one-off event, it was the first time I've ever been tempted to get off the 505 at the valley, on a whim, to check something out. Regardless of its present - or future ( Tannery Lofts anyone? ) - use, it is one of several attractive contemporary buildings along the valley that aren't residential yet help to define that part of town. To accept that there is a class of buildings that are designed to be appreciated from vehicles moving at speed - and that they're not residential -doesn't negate their value as designed objects. King and Bay isn't a residential neighbourhood either, but we cherish it for the quality of what's built there.
 
simuls said:
Come on Shocker, what you were witnessing was a one off. It's not like people stroll by the Mercedes dealership and decide to stay for awhile, mingle with new friends, and head down the street to Riverdale Farm ;) It was acting more like a social hall in Burlington that's dead 95% of the time but is alive once in a blue moon.

And I can't see how they set the architectural tone, unless you're driving down the DVP, and then we have have a serious disconnect. The BMW dealership, while beautiful from a distance and while inside, does nothing to connect to the city around it and hasn't influenced any buildings or new business in the area that I can think of
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I think the BMW dealership was there first, and likely softened people's perceptions of that area enough to help make Broadview Lofts the success it was. I suspect that once the area gets built up more, BMW will sell off its parking lot lands and allow other things to be built there. Its street presence isn't THAT bad, especially when you consider that it essentially fronts a highway onramp.

In this day and age of computer-controlled inventory, you just don't need dealership lots. They should have showroom examples, and a couple demos for test-drives, but otherwise their stock should be off-site.

I'm a big car nut, but I really hate the way cars are sold. The second largest purchase of most people's lives is often a pretty dismal one.
 
Urban Shocker said:
To accept that there is a class of buildings that are designed to be appreciated from vehicles moving at speed - and that they're not residential -doesn't negate their value as designed objects. King and Bay isn't a residential neighbourhood either, but we cherish it for the quality of what's built there.
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I'm not arguing that they don't have value as designed objects. They clearly do and I enjoy both buildings, on their own (and the special coffee maker's both dealerships have) But, to me, architecture isn't just about nice buildings, it's about the interplay between themselves and the surrounding environs, how they connect to the people who walk past them everyday and the way in which they add to the neighbourhood on a human scale.

To bring it back to the Volvo dealership, I just don't think that simple commercial use is good enough for an area that cries out for more. Ok, I'm finished now:)
 
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