Toronto 45 Strachan | 131.97m | 39s | BentallGreenOak | Hariri Pontarini
- Thread starter Automation Gallery
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DavidCapizzano
Senior Member
The window wall is indeed very terrible but I am interested to see how the podium brick / balcony guards end up looking. This is only like 10ish floors from topping out so I'd imagine work on the exterior will accelerate over the summer.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
Did I get that wrong again? I’ve only been posting here for four years… /bleh
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm late to chime in here, but will offer my opinion by way of poaching CanadianNational's fine assessment. He's got it exactly.
Man alive is this ugly!
ProjectEnd
Superstar
An. Architect. Is. Only. As. Capable. As. Their. Client.
Northern Light
Superstar
I get your take here PE, and I'm not unsympathetic. But at the same time, is an Engineer only as good as their client, or do we insist that they meet professional standards and not engineer improperly because their client is cheap? Electrician? Plumbing? Do we make that excuse for Heart surgeons? Well, the patient was a bit of a $@# so we half-assed the surgery?
At some point an architect must bear responsibility to just say 'no'; and/or walk away from a job. I do get, we all need to eat, as it were, but all these other professions are expected to adhere to minimum standards and architecture should be no different.
Yes, aesthetics are subjective, to a point, which makes it a bit different. But at the same time, I would expect the cosmetic surgeon who disfigured someone, because they really wanted to be like 'The Joker' in Batman would lose their license to practice medicine.
At some point, you have to hold your ground and have a modicum of integrity, even if the client is a jerk.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It won't end up this bad, to be clear - there is a lot of balcony cladding and brick work on the podium coming which should salvage it a bit.
Definitely never going to be a looker though.
Definitely never going to be a looker though.
UtakataNoAnnex
Senior Member
With all due respect, I don’t think the architect has any control of what the developer chooses to use in the end. And I’m not sure we would be having this conversation if the materials used here where of a premium quality glazed in rich hues.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Correct. And HPA does push back a lot on clients (rightly so). But to your point, business is a 'pick your battles' arena. Bentall made their choice and HPA weighed the pros and cons of 'fighting it', and decided it wasn't in their best interest. That's what happens.
Which 'professional standards' weren't met here?
Northern Light
Superstar
I'm not being legalistic here PE.
The standards around acceptable aesthetics are not in the professional code of practice.
They're around people who have sufficient talent and ability simply saying "No, I don't need the money that badly".
ProjectEnd
Superstar
You're correct. "Acceptable aesthetics" are intangible and impossible to defend in court. We all agree the building sucks, but the decisions leading to it looking like this were certainly not pushed by HPA. If you think they would just say 'bye' to a long standing client because they didn't like the toothpaste spandrel here, I mean, sure, they could have, but outside of this forum really, nobody cares. So why end a solid and (one assumes) profitable relationship because of some niche, mostly anonymous, folks on the internet?
Northern Light
Superstar
Not because of some niche, mostly anonymous folks on the internet. Because of pride and/or shame.
It's a different mindset, I appreciate, than most; but it's mine.
I sympathize w/the entry-level pay person who can't afford to miss a single cheque; but to the person who earns six to seven figures and really, if they've invested wisely, doesn't really need to work another day in their life, I have trouble w/accepting doing work and being credited for work you don't believe in and would critique harshly if it came from others.
@Northern Light I think you're underplaying the costs to an architectural firm of walking away from a project. Companies have payroll and many other expenses to make monthly, so they have to bill clients. I understand that you would not want your name associated with a developer who was going to disgrace you with your own design, but if you walk away from a client, the bar has to be set very, very high to take such a drastic action, as all your bills still have to be paid. An architect I interviewed once told me that the worst thing that ever happened in his career was when he had to lay people off as client work had dried up. That was related to a recession in that case and not from having walked away from a job because of creative differences, but it underscored for me how important it is to keep clients so you can keep your offices running.
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Northern Light
Superstar
I'm sympathetic to the argument above. I realize the real world is a messy place.
But I walked away from a corporate job where I was being promoted rapidly and on track for the top tier, to do something that I found more satisfying.
That's just my instinct by nature, I'm someone whose been skydiving, rafted class 5 rapids, same idea.
I value my experience and my contribution the world highly and my risk tolerance is probably a bit higher than average.
I totally get that's not everyone's speed; and when you have others depending on you, its more challenging still (i don't have kids)
In that vein, i have trouble picturing HPs demand drying up because they walked away from one project or one client; but perhaps I'm wrong on that.
I should also be clear, I don't envision one quitting mid-project; I envision an agreed upon standard at the beginning of a project; and if the two minds don't meet, you do business elsewhere.
A client who wants a discount job, should pay a discount firm. You don't ask Whole Foods to carry Cheez Whiz; and you shouldn't ask HP to make off-the-shelf schlock.