Toronto 175 Cummer | 10.49m | 3s | City of Toronto | Montgomery Sisam

[Northern Light]

Simple solution - build more units on the site to maximize benefits.

AoD

There's a case to be made for that, however, the modular housing model, sans conventional elevators doesn't really work at over 4s in height.

Also, buildings that are entirely vulnerable populations get a lot more blowback at +60 residents, and truthfully outcomes often deteriorate in a non-mixed income scenario.

If we opt out of the configuration done here, we're probably looking at the 'Housing Now' model; which hasn't exactly worked out great so far, though a lot of that is a financing issue.

But the Housing Now model for higher heights also wouldn't work on many of these sites which are on side streets, surrounded by low-rise.

Again, I'm in the pro-camp here; I'm not drawing definitive conclusions on what went wrong here; and I'm not switching to the Anti camp. But I think we need to gain an understanding of why build costs have come in much, much
higher than they should have.

Double the ft2 here also doesn't lower your cost that much because the land was 'free'. It does allow some amortization on lobby, support service offices and such, but as the building code demands more the higher you go, I'm not sure that trade works here either.

 

[taikou]

But I think we need to gain an understanding of why build costs have come in much, much
higher than they should have.

Agreed with Northern Light 100%. I am disappointed about the mainstream media not providing enough coverage about the financial aspect of the modular housing projects. More public awareness would definitely help to give more pressure to the government for higher transparency. The cost ($971 psf) is simply ridiculous and make the whole project un-justified! More importantly, the high cost does not only happen at 175 Cummer alone. What if it becomes the norm for the future projects? I don't want to make any speculation here, but something is definitely wrong systematically.

To be honest, regardless of our standpoints (pro-camp, anti-camp or in the middle), I think everyone can agree that the government should be more responsible and transparent when spending the taxpayers' money, right?

 

[onetoronto]

Agreed with Northern Light 100%. I am disappointed about the mainstream media not providing enough coverage about the financial aspect of the modular housing projects. More public awareness would definitely help to give more pressure to the government for higher transparency. The cost ($971 psf) is simply ridiculous and make the whole project un-justified! More importantly, the high cost does not only happen at 175 Cummer alone. What if it becomes the norm for the future projects? I don't want to make any speculation here, but something is definitely wrong systematically.

To be honest, regardless of our standpoints (pro-camp, anti-camp or in the middle), I think everyone can agree that the government should be more responsible and transparent when spending the taxpayers' money, right?

Also, let's not forget that people are profiting from this. But these are not Doug's developer friends, so we're not allowed to mention it.

 

[tiffer24]

The community groups who just spent more than a half million dollars to stop this one project by inflating its overall costs through court challenges are now lecturing others about the proper way to spend tax dollars. The same ones who said they supported housing just a few months ago, just not in their neighbourhoods. The goalposts move fast in North York. LOL

 

[Northern Light]

The community groups who just spent more than a half million dollars to stop this one project by inflating its overall costs through court challenges are now lecturing others about the proper way to spend tax dollars. The same ones who said they supported housing just a few months ago, just not in their neighbourhoods. The goalposts move fast in North York. LOL

For the record, the cost per ft2 I cited was for 540 Cedarvale, not Cummer; and it's a project I supported, and still do, in principle.

Cedarvale didn't have the same hassles as Cummer.

I think we need to separate out opposition to affordable housing of whatever variety from the idea that over 900per ft2 is simply not an acceptable or moral price to pay here.

It means we're building far less affordable housing than we could and should, because money was spent unwisely.

I don't believe that cost is at all attributable to the program (affordable housing); so I'm curious as to whether sole-source contracts, among other things, may have impacted costs here, or whether the format (Modular)
simply isn't economical in the promised manner.

We need to know how this happened so that we don't let it happen again so we can built more affordable housing.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

The community groups who just spent more than a half million dollars to stop this one project by inflating its overall costs through court challenges are now lecturing others about the proper way to spend tax dollars. The same ones who said they supported housing just a few months ago, just not in their neighbourhoods. The goalposts move fast in North York. LOL

For the record,.... the Community Group wished they had half a million dollars to fight this! The cost of Appeal is in the 5-figures,... not mid-6-figures.

 

[HousingNowTO]

For the record,.... the Community Group wished they had half a million dollars to fight this! The cost of Appeal is in the 5-figures,... not mid-6-figures.

Money (in the "5-figures" range, aka 'Tens of Thousands of Dollars') that would have been far better spent by the Community Group on donations to a local North York Shelter, or Food-Bank charity -

Donate Today — North York Harvest Food Bank

Your support will help kids, families, seniors and others in our community have access to healthy food. Thank You!

northyorkharvest.com

- instead of appealing against this Supportive Housing project at every opportunity for the last 2+ years.

Now we all have to wait until November 2023 for your appeal to be thrown-out... so, "money well spent", folks... I guess..?

 

[Allandale25]

For the record,.... the Community Group wished they had half a million dollars to fight this! The cost of Appeal is in the 5-figures,... not mid-6-figures.

Money (in the "5-figures" range, aka 'Tens of Thousands of Dollars') that would have been far better spent by the Community Group on donations to a local North York Shelter, or Food-Bank charity -

Donate Today — North York Harvest Food Bank

Your support will help kids, families, seniors and others in our community have access to healthy food. Thank You!

northyorkharvest.com

- instead of appealing against this Supportive Housing project at every opportunity for the last 2+ years.

Now we all have to wait until November 2023 for your appeal to be thrown-out... so, "money well spent", folks... I guess..?

View attachment 492391

Any sense if they'll be calling a planning witness? Has an issue list been provided?

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Any sense if they'll be calling a planning witness? Has an issue list been provided?

Apparently,... they should call the City's Auditor General,... that'll be fun!

 

[Allandale25]

Can't tell if you're being sarcastic. From the little bit I've read above the AG report it was about costs, not the planning merits which is what the OLT hearing will be about. Are you referencing the AG report because you don't support this project and don't agree with the staff report approving the rezoning that was adopted by Council?

 

[Allandale25]

Doesn't directly mention this site and I haven't watched the Council speeches on it, but reading between the lines it is about this site.

Agenda Item History 2023.AU2.7

Agenda Item History 2023.AU2.7

secure.toronto.ca

 

[Northern Light]

Doesn't directly mention this site and I haven't watched the Council speeches on it, but reading between the lines it is about this site.

It's about this site and others.

You can see the note on making sure zoning is in place prior to awarding construction. That is is this site.

But there's also one on assessing soil conditions, that is due to a different site.

View attachment 493650

Agenda Item History 2023.AU2.7

Agenda Item History 2023.AU2.7

secure.toronto.ca

You know what I missed here............

I don't see a thing in that report about sole-sourcing vs competitive bidding.

 

[dustcollector]

wow, a council motion filled with requests to do better, does that mean they're finally firing Abi Bond for messing up so much? i've never read a council motion, so hoping somebody can help me read between the lines and understand what council is asking for

it seems to say: before you approve spending all the money please check how much it will cost and tell us, please document how you got that number, please keep a record of who is handling the money for the project, please get approvals to build before you spend all the money, please have some sense of how long it would take, please check to see where the money already spent has gone to (it's a mystery?), please have some process for keeping track when money is being spent...

if Abi Bond wasn't actually doing all that stuff the whole time, was she like quiet quitting, or just actually incompetent, or corrupt?

and then separately for the lawyers: please try to find out where the money went, and see if we can get it back


...
"19. City Council request the Executive Director, Housing Secretariat to conduct and document on a timely basis, a more formalized lesson learned review after each modular housing project is completed, which should include:
... c. A consideration of lessons learned from past projects."

wow. city council seems a little upset about this situation.

 

[taikou]

wow, a council motion filled with requests to do better, does that mean they're finally firing Abi Bond for messing up so much?

Absolutely. She definitely needs to be fired in order to be accountable for all the mess she made. She is totally incompetent, irresponsible and not doing due diligence. However, I wouldn't expect it will happen under this corrupted government. They might even give her a raise instead. Let's keep an eye on the Ontario Sunshine List to see how much raise she is going to get in 2023

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

wow. city council seems a little upset about this situation.

Amendment carries,.... next Audit of Housing Secretariat on Modular Housing at end of next year,...