Thornhill - Yonge to become people place

[jaycola]

It looks like with plans to extend the subway north along Yonge St, Vaughan and Markham are finally working together on a plan to transform the old Thornhill village into a place that would attract pedestrians.
http://www.yorkregion.com/article/88124


Burying the hydro lines and encouraging streetscape development appear to be key to the plan.

With the large scale developments south at at Yonge and Doncaster http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=667&highlight=7171 and north at Yonge and Langstaff http://urbantoronto.ca/showthread.php?t=7883&highlight=gateway, encouraging development along this strip seems like a sensible option for York Region.

Not included on the web article but in the print version was a quote from councillor Alan Shefman,
"You don't have to be an oracle to figure the other strip malls along the stretch-to say nothing of the vast field of car dealerships on the Vaughan side- will go the way of the dodo sooner rather than later"

The car dealerships sit on a site nearly 3 (based on my visual observation only) times the size of the Yonge Doncaster site directly across the road.

That site could be a key development for the area.

 

[lead82]

I doubt very much that Thornhill centre will get any redevelopment. Outside of streetscape improvements which are badly needed, that area is completely desolate of humans. Cars drive by this 'historic' area as fast as possible. There is nothing to see or do there, nor will there be in the near future since there is a very strong local opposition by those over 60 that do not want any changes to their beloved Thornhill Centre. They wish to keep it the way it is, a historic 'village'.

I would personally love to see Thornhill turned into a Unionville with lovely shops and places to go for a stroll. Currently, aside from the Starbucks, there are no useful shops or even restaurants to visit there. Mostly random paint, maternity shops and real estate offices inhabit the space.

 

[adma]

I would personally love to see Thornhill turned into a Unionville with lovely shops and places to go for a stroll.

Well, that's precisely the kind of "redevelopment" I suspect they have in mind, i.e. Unionville infused with a touch of Cornell Village. New Urbanist nodemaking IOW...

 

[taal]

Good luck to them.

The place is an embarrassment now ... there're 1/2 blocks of what almost comes off as run down shops surrounded by gigantic houses.

If it can become anything like downtown Richmond Hill that would be great ...
Actually not so sure about that. Although downtown Richmond Hill has a good feel to it (honestly, not really interesting in terms of stores though) it's EMPTY absolutely all the time less car traffic (and a huge amount of it). You rarely see anyone walking down Yonge along that stretch. Even though it has all the right conditions for it! I guess there's just no hope in some areas.

I find most of the "little" downtown areas throughout the GTA to be silly at best. Less Unionville, they actually managed to get a decent amount of foot traffic and have interesting restaurants and what not. A couple of other places too I'm not bashing them all. The other problem is for the most part the stores in these areas are lack luster by far (Downtown richmond Hill has that problem).

What they need to be like, is Yonge North of Eglinton - or Yonge between York Mills and Lawrence. It kinda has that old small town downtown vibe but with tons of interesting places / stores / restaurants. I know I'm comparing apples to oranges now though ...

 

[PSC]

To be fair to Richmond Hill, they've been busy getting rid of the seedier stuff in the downtown and the RH Centre for the Performing Arts opens next Saturday.

It has potential to be pedestrian friendly, and has improved a lot over the last few years.

Kleinburg it ain't, but it ain't bad either.

 

[PukeGreen]

Odd that the image/rendering accompanying this plan to attract pedestrians is dominated by a road and automobiles that are far more prominent than the people walking, which I didn't even notice at first. Telling, perhaps.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

That picture is from a prior study of the heritage district.
At the end of the day, they have 6 lanes of Yonge St dividing the strip -unlike Unionville, Kleinburg and RH, so they're gonna have to do what they can.

As mentioned above, Richmond Hill will get a huge kick out of the performing arts centre opening. They also have a luxury Tridel condo under construction and are doing a study about the feasibility of moving their town hall to the end of the strip - they have a lot of potential.

Thornhill will be more of a challenge given what's there now but there are still opportunities. We'll see if anything happens with all this.

And I don't think that bit about the car dealerships is a Shefman quote, just the reporter spouting. But there's no way those dealerships are still there 10 years from now.

 

[oreoshack]

i went to thornhill secondary, and the tim hortons there would be a gathering place for students, even today. but i don't really see anywhere for them to develop. the actual strip is very small. there is intermittent commercial areas from centre/thornhill heights to arnold/elgin(which is about 150 metres long) and then there is huge drop from centre to royal orchard. i wouldn't really call that a prime pedestrian or commercial area. they should concentrate on NYCC and then develop downtown Richmond Hill, forget about thornhill, thornhill sucks anyways.

 

[Disparishun]

If the print version talks about car dealerships, then this is a very confused article indeed -- it can't decide if it's about the "heritage" district or about the whole stretch between Steeles and 7. Of the latter stretch, the heritage district they seem to be talking about (and is pictured there) is a pretty thin slice. Most of the rest of is long slated for high density, and there are detailed ongoing plans for both sides.

Part of the problem is that Vaughan and Markham (but especially Vaughan) haven't always been particularly interested in Thornhill, which straddles the border of each of the two municipalities. It would be nice if they could do something with the Old Thornhill area, I guess, insofar as that area pretty much does suck. But, in the meantime, few who live in Thornhill are likely to hold their breath -- there are many other shopping areas, few on Yonge (although the plaza on the northwest corner of Yonge and Clark, and the one beneath the condos at the southwest corner, both get good traffic). Old Thornhill just isn't on anyone's radar

 

[jaycola]

Maybe it's time to steal-expropriate Thornhill from Vaughan and Markham and give it to Richmond Hill.

Given the odd configuration of the division between the cities, having Richmond Hill take on the entire Yonge Corridor from Toronto's northern limit to Aurora would make more sence for planning.

Planning around the present situation accomplishes little for Yonge Street.

 

[taal]

To be fair to Richmond Hill, they've been busy getting rid of the seedier stuff in the downtown and the RH Centre for the Performing Arts opens next Saturday.

It has potential to be pedestrian friendly, and has improved a lot over the last few years.

Kleinburg it ain't, but it ain't bad either.

Yea I really don't like how the glass is covered up in spots instead of just being a complete glass wall ... sorry no pics.

Unfortunetly higher end stores don't necessary contribute to more people walking v.s. driving. You could argue the opposite in many cases.

I agree that the performing art center will help though ... but if you've noticed there's a nice big parking lot right on Yonge to go along with it.

I guess really it's fine the way it is now - it's hard to force different culture on the vast majority of people who live there. I don't think you'll see it change much seeing how many new condos in the areas are very expensive which attracts a particular type of clientele.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

If the print version talks about car dealerships, then this is a very confused article indeed -- it can't decide if it's about the "heritage" district or about the whole stretch between Steeles and 7.

I think the article was about various things going on along that whole stretch south of 7. The deal is Markham and Vaughan are asking the region to do a streetscaping study of that whole strip. Part of the reason for THAT is:
a) They already did a study of JUST the heritage district but that (3 years of work!) got thrown out when the Viva bus lanes died.
b) They want to take those principles and extend them to the whole strip, now that the subway is going in.

I totally agree the heritage district in particular is not really on the radar but the new planning regime (low-mid rise condos with retail at grade) ) can kickstart that. The Tim Horton's plaza is ghastly, even by strip mall standards, and begging to get redeveloped.

I also agree that dividing Thornhill has done the community little good. It gets treated like the ass-end of Vaughan (rather ironically) and Markham (albeit to a lesser extent) leaving a few well-intentioned but die-hard heritage preservationists to run the show. The result is a retail "core" where time stands still - which, contrary to local opinion - is not a good thing.

If they can trade a few accountants for a decent lunch restaurant type place it could become at least a mini-destination for the locals. It's never going to be Unionville, obviously but there's definitely a potential to make it better than it is.

And Taal has a good point about the challenges of changing the culture, and maybe it won't work in RH or elsewhere, but it's what they're trying to do. The condo in the RH heritage district, for example, might attract "a certain kind of clientele" but that site used to be a strip club/motel and across the street were multiple XXX video stores so I think there are worse things than having BMW-driving yuppies. And if they walk to the local Starbucks instead of driving to the almost-local Starbucks? Even better.

 

[smuncky]

i went to thornhill secondary, and the tim hortons there would be a gathering place for students, even today. but i don't really see anywhere for them to develop. the actual strip is very small. there is intermittent commercial areas from centre/thornhill heights to arnold/elgin(which is about 150 metres long) and then there is huge drop from centre to royal orchard. i wouldn't really call that a prime pedestrian or commercial area. they should concentrate on NYCC and then develop downtown Richmond Hill, forget about thornhill, thornhill sucks anyways.

i used to go to TSS as well. however, they opened the Tim Hortons after i left. but i do remember after that it was a huge hang out place for kids in that area.

in my eyes, i don't think thornhill will ever be this vibrant busy pedestrian heritage district that everyone is dreaming of.

 

[Chuck]

I think that if we are going to entertain the idea of annexing Thornhill at all, it would make most sense if Toronto annexed it. Not only would that simplify operations of the subway, but it would also harmonize the redevelopment of the area, not to mention simplify school boundaries. Yonge and Steeles is probably one of the best growth nodes in the GTA, and could be better developed under one unified plan. Yonge and Steeles is a key intersection, but it doesn't show up on anyone's radar screen because no single municipality lays claim to more than half of it.

 

[Disparishun]

I also agree that dividing Thornhill has done the community little good. It gets treated like the ass-end of Vaughan (rather ironically) and Markham (albeit to a lesser extent) leaving a few well-intentioned but die-hard heritage preservationists to run the show. The result is a retail "core" where time stands still - which, contrary to local opinion - is not a good thing.

I guess -- but I can't imagine anyone seriously arguing that Yonge is Thornhill's retail core.

If they can trade a few accountants for a decent lunch restaurant type place it could become at least a mini-destination for the locals. It's never going to be Unionville, obviously but there's definitely a potential to make it better than it is.

On the other hand, there are definitely a bunch of restaurants on that stretch of Yonge that are popular with the locals. Ginza is always packed, and Indian Kitchen does okay right next to it (as does the bubble tea place on the other side of Ginza, come to think of it) on the southwest corner of Yonge and Clark. The huge Korean restaurant on the northwest corner, at the top of what is, in fairness, a much nicer version of the usual strip mall. The Persian pomegranate juice store in the same mall. The Persian nut store across the street. Heck, I guess it'll be torn down eventually to make way for the megadevelopment, but lots of people eat at Galleria (the enormous Korean grocery store/mall). And at Nino d'Aversa right by it.

There are many others. That stretch of Yonge is not doing great, but it is not dead, either.