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The Future of City-Owned Golf Courses in Toronto

The reality is that the golf courses should close and the developable land be used for affordable housing, with the valley lands converted to park space. Much like what is happening at many privately owned 905 golf courses, minus the affordable component.

will That ever happen though? Of course not.
 
As a golfer in the city I felt like I may be able to provide some useful input. This might get a bit long as I have a few opinions on this.

There are definitely some valid concerns regarding the optimization of city owed space, however there seems to be a special distaste for golf. Perhaps it is the sense of snobbery or elitism that is baked into the general culture of the game but people seem to feel much differently about the city providing golf as an amenity than say, soccer or baseball. As a regular at some of the municipal courses I can confirm that these are the places where seniors, juniors and those of lesser means come to learn the game. At Scarlett Woods for example the green fees range from 16$ to 46$ depending on the time of day and day of the week. Compare that to the nearest private course where the initiation fees alone are often close to 100k$ The snobby people in golf routinely make fun of the city courses precisely because it is a place where anyone can play regardless of means or ability. It's also worth noting that golf is becoming busier every year. This year it has become especially difficult to get a tee time.

When it comes to Toronto's courses, I don't understand why they are singled out from other city amenities for development. All of them (at least the vast majority) reside in flood plains so they are unsuitable for development. They also are surrounded by vast amounts of public green space or other types of parks. I don't believe we should develop the cricket complex across from Scarlet Woods, or the tennis courts next to Detonia Park.

All that being said. I do think that improvements could be made. Winter uses, like cross country skying, or would provide new amenities for residents. I also thing some courses could, in an effort to make space for cycle connections or nature trails, be renovated to feature fewer holes. Toronto could be a leader in golf innovation by creating 12 or 14 hole courses that are cheaper, more environmentally friendly, and allow for more people to play in one day.
 
When it comes to Toronto's courses, I don't understand why they are singled out from other city amenities for development. All of them (at least the vast majority) reside in flood plains so they are unsuitable for development. They also are surrounded by vast amounts of public green space or other types of parks. I don't believe we should develop the cricket complex across from Scarlet Woods, or the tennis courts next to Detonia Park.

I think the main issue is that when you walk or cycle for a significant distance on Toronto's mixed-use trails, there's an inevitable block-long detour on the streets around a city owned golf course. Ignoring the budget issues of the courses, a very simple solution is to build a mixed-use trail along the edge with some wire fencing around and over it for safety. The most annoying detour is the Don Valley Golf Course; it's a long way from Yonge & York Mills to the nearest entrance off Westgate Road.

IIRC, there's a bit of trail near Villaways Park underneath the Richmond Hill GO line in a protective cage if someone wants an example of what I mean.
 
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^ I have nothing against golf in itself... but as a pure matter of number of people enjoying themselves per hectare per hour, a golf course is a pretty land intensive proposition and this invites comparisons.

I like the idea of reducing the number of holes, and converting the land freed up to mixed recreation, and encouraging more non-golfer access to the facilities (not suggesting people be encouraged to stroll across the fairways, but you get the idea). Bring more people on site - and sell more burgers and beer, even.

I have a nagging fear that the employment side of the golf courses may prove to be its salvation... there may be more jobs in those groundskeeping and licensed snack facilities than we realise. The almost-break-even picture may look much better if this were given profile.... and the suggestion of cutting those jobs lost to save a small amount of municipal subsidy may even look meanspirited.

I would not like to see the land sold off for development, but can it be better used is the question.

The issue for me is the lack of a proper business case analysis. The City could do a lot more to make its case. The report going to Council is so devoid of fact or analysis to justify criticism.

- Paul
 
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As a golfer in the city I felt like I may be able to provide some useful input. This might get a bit long as I have a few opinions on this.

There are definitely some valid concerns regarding the optimization of city owed space, however there seems to be a special distaste for golf. Perhaps it is the sense of snobbery or elitism that is baked into the general culture of the game but people seem to feel much differently about the city providing golf as an amenity than say, soccer or baseball. As a regular at some of the municipal courses I can confirm that these are the places where seniors, juniors and those of lesser means come to learn the game. At Scarlett Woods for example the green fees range from 16$ to 46$ depending on the time of day and day of the week. Compare that to the nearest private course where the initiation fees alone are often close to 100k$

There maybe some issue around snobbishness for some; but for most of us here, the concerns are more practical.

The first is efficient use of land, within the context of sport/park space.

Golf has very few people per acre of land even when a course is in maximum use.

A typical course is in the range of 40ha or 100 acres.

Assuming a golfing party of 4 at every single hole, (x18) you have a maximum of 72 people being served.

For comparison a soccer pitch takes 0.7ha (or 1.75 acres) and has 22 players on the field plus subs and coaches.

So if you replaced a golf course with soccer pitches, you could serve more than 1,000 people on that space as opposed to 72.

Even if you compare it to a passive/nature park, the use is low. Taylor Creek Park, not far from Dentonia would have 72 people just on 1km of path; never mind the group picnic spaces, fire pits etc; while also being cheaper to maintain, and free-access.

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There is the second point; the claim that people of modest means can golf on a City course. With great respect, I don't think so.

at even $16 per round, which would be off-peak junior rate I believe.........(for only 9 holes)

You need to reasonably compare it with the the price of other outdoor recreation activities funded by the City.

So let's take a 3-month window and weekly participation as our bar.

13 golf outings would set our junior back $16 x 13 or $199 for one person playing by themselves.

Given that one generally does not play the game alone, you also need a partner to pony up the same sum.

But that presumes your modest means person owns their own clubs; not common, or cheap.

Elsewise, you're looking at $20 club rental per round.

That's another $260 for a 13-week season.

So your entry level price, for a child, is $459 for one round a week for 3 months.

An Adult fee, on a weekend is $46 per round - $598 for once a week for 3 months, + $260 if they need to rent clubs for a total of $858


Ain't too many folks of modest means eating that bill!

By comparison, Outdoor Pools are free to use, typically accommodate around 200 people at a time; and about 3,000 over a typical day, while occupying a tiny portion of the land.

Playgrounds are free, Leisure skating is free, Even premier soccer fields are much cheaper on a per person, per use basis. ~$12 for 2 hours (a game) for children/youth non-profit use. (not per player, total).

Adult fees at $33 per hour or $66 per game would still be only $3 per player.

So lets compare that as a weekly, 3 month activity. Cost per player, Youth = $7, Adult= $39 for the entire 3 months!

Golf is not an accessible sport financially.

We're it accessible that would remove one objection.

But how much of a subsidy would that entail?

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Also noted above is the obstruction courses posts to bike paths.

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Also to be noted, the golf courses are fenced off and use by non-players prohibited during times when the course may be empty, be that late evening or off-season.

By contrast, soccer pitches are always available for a pick-up game or a picnic if not in active use.

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Finally, there is the environmental objection.

Golf courses are irrigated and heavily mowed and dominated by a non-native plant (Kentucky Blue Grass).

They don't contribute in the way they could or should to managing storm water run-off, ameliorating water quality, attracting pollinators, cleaning air and furnishing wildlife habitat.

Other than that, they're perfectly fine!


In truth, notwithstanding the above, I'm open to compromises that keep some form of golf.

But I think the key is pitch n'putt or holes with much shorter fairways that take up roughly 1/2 the land area of conventional golf.

That, as a start, would allow re-naturalization, ecosystem connectivity, and continuous bike trails through existing course locations.

It would also improve the efficiency of land-use, and thereby allow cheaper golf w/o additional subsidies or much cheaper with a subsidy enhancement.

I think if you could bring down the cost for adults by 1/2; (including 1/2 for club rental); the numbers get considerably more interesting.

Finally course design and policy needs to allow for community use in the off season.
 
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I think the main issue is that when you walk or cycle for a significant distance on Toronto's mixed-use trails, there's an inevitable block-long detour on the streets around a city owned golf course. Ignoring the budget issues of the courses, a very simple solution is to build a mixed-use trail along the edge with some wire fencing around and over it for safety. The most annoying detour is the Don Valley Golf Course; it's a long way from Yonge & York Mills to the nearest entrance off Westgate Road.

I agree, I think cycle paths should have a priority here as they are an important piece of transportation infrastructure. No objection there.

but as a pure matter of number of people enjoying themselves per hectare per hour, a golf course is a pretty land intensive proposition

Thats a fair point, however in Toronto, all of the courses are in areas with massive amounts of park land and other amenities. I wouldn't make the same argument for Vancouver where they have a shortage of green space around the municipal courses. Very few people are being underserved my green/recreational space in these areas. My guess is if the courses were converted to parks in Toronto they would have a lower level of use than they do now, but thats just my own speculation having frequented some of the nearby parks. (again I think trail connections would be valuable.)

There is the second point; the claim that people of modest means can golf on a City course. With great respect, I don't think so.

I don't agree with your calculations here. It makes more sense in this instance to compare the municipal courses to the privately owned options around the city, not to soccer. The courses in Toronto that are accessible by transit are all ~8 to 10k annually with initiation fees the price of many condos. If one has the means to afford a car the options within a half hour drive are usually between $125 and $300. It takes an hour long drive to get a more reasonably priced golf course. So, you're right. Golf, even at Scarlett woods, is expensive compared to soccer, but the choice here isn't between golf and soccer, it would be between golf or no golf at all. Personally, I think it would be a shame to lose that option. Furthermore, these courses hold junior camps at reduced rates and are important social/exercise facilities for seniors. It's also worth mentioning, though a bit semantic to say, that playing every week for 3 months is a lot for the average joe, and a set of used clubs (a quick kijiji search found some sets as low as $50) is no more expensive than the startup cost of most sports including soccer. Again, not necessarily cheap, but massively cheaper than any available alternative. I think a wide variety of public amenities, golf included, is a good thing for the average citizen.

Also to be noted, the golf courses are fenced off and use by non-players prohibited during times when the course may be empty, be that late evening or off-season.

I agree they should be open in the winter as a park or other winter sport facility. Off hours would be difficult due to maintenance procedures.
 
Furthermore, these courses hold junior camps at reduced rates and are important social/exercise facilities for seniors.

This is the kind of thing that needs to be captured in a business case. We (and Council, it seems) are looking at this without the full detail of how these facilities are run and what value they deliver to the community.

I agree they should be open in the winter as a park or other winter sport facility. Off hours would be difficult due to maintenance procedures.

Cross country skiiing seems to be officially or unofficially tolerated - don't ask me how I know this ;-) And one does find lost golf balls on top of the snow in the dead of winter.....

- Paul
 
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Great examples on cost comparisons foe the user Northern Lights. For a truly thorough comparison we also need both the cost to the city to operate each different activity you compare against golf and the revenue generated from each facility.

Another important factor is the need for any one activity. Toronto appears to have plenty of soccer pitches tennis courts etc, many of which I see empty almost constantly. Toronto has very limited golf courses
 
Golf just takes up a lot of space, and in my opinion the main argument for singling out city-owned golf courses is that they would theoretically be easier to re-designate. I don't think all of them should be switched over - Scarlett Woods, for example, is in a floodplain that would be risky to develop, and Jane/Eglinton is surrounded by parks on all four sides so the area isn't lacking in green space, while Tam O'Shanter is tucked away midblock where high density isn't feasible and low density isn't profitable.

Of course, I do just have a general disdain for "rich people activities", so in an ideal world it would be the member-only clubs or the ones charging $100+ a game that I would go after, e.g. the Toronto Hunt Club near Kingston and Warden. It would take more political capital, but that might be more equitable in the long run.
 
For all the peoples advocating for the repurposing of City Golf Courses, your being selfish, i as a property owner and City tax payer enjoy golfing even thou i rarely play on city courses (have not played city course for 10 years), i don't play tennis, baseball, soccer, swim, use hockey arenas, libraries or any other city recreational facilities, should the city repurpose all of these facilities as none of them make money ? IMO the city has a good balance and not every citizen uses the same facilities or activities, so let the people that enjoy golf enjoy playing and the same for all other people that enjoy other recreational facilities.Not everything in life is about money.
 
Should the city also provide money-losing polo facilities as well? Golf is kind of an inherently suburban/rural activity that requires a lot of space per person. If there is no higher use to which the land can be put, then fine. But if there is better use (improving trails/accessibility, more functional public space) that should get priority.
 
Should the city also provide money-losing polo facilities as well? Golf is kind of an inherently suburban/rural activity that requires a lot of space per person. If there is no higher use to which the land can be put, then fine. But if there is better use (improving trails/accessibility, more functional public space) that should get priority.
So the 100,000 plus people that play per year are not important? more people play golf on municipal courses than people play on baseball diamonds or soccer fields, so should we repurpose those also?
 
Another argument against converting golf courses that I just thought of: wouldn't it be cheaper to simply build on the existing utilities and infrastructure in service-rich neighbourhoods? We should be looking at revising zoning laws, and not waste our time with this kind of stopgap measure. Look at Tam O'Shanter, for example - why is the golf course there any less "urban" than the single-family homes along Kennedy Road just to the east? Maybe a view of the golf course could be a selling point for future apartments and midrises near Agincourt GO! Just combining this with promoting off-season uses should help to subsidize the summer maintenance costs.
 

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