The Beer Store: Political Reasons to Keep/Kill It

[AlvinofDiaspar]

re: checkout

I am not even sure why you need two checkouts - one specifically for alcohol and nothing else. All you needed is two kinds of cashiers - one that can handle groceries only (lock out against beer UPCs), and the other groceries and booze. Staff the latter with adult employees who must request photo ID. Not rocket science here.

AoD

 

[TOareaFan]

re: checkout

I am not even sure why you need two checkouts - one specifically for alcohol and nothing else. All you needed is two kinds of cashiers - one that can handle groceries only (lock out against beer UPCs), and the other groceries and booze. Staff the latter with adult employees who must request photo ID. Not rocket science here.

AoD

That is a solution, sure....but if I owned a grocery store, I would make it policy that all of my cashiers were able to work all of my cash registers....so I would not hire anyone under 18 for the cashier position. In a part time work environment, flexibility is a key element and having a group of employees that "can't work over there" is not an ideal situation. The 16 year old cashier still becomes a thing of the past.

 

[SweetWater]

Not much has changed

Like 90% of the market, I like to buy my beer in cases of 24's.

The proposed changes don't do much for me:
- I will pay $1 more per case
- prices still controlled
- The locations I can by a 24 stay the same. Sure there may be more Craft Beer selection at the Beer Store but with fees only 5% less than the current ones, I would not expect that many Craft Brewers can afford to change their distribution model.

This whole exercise by Kathleen Wynne has not been about
#FreeOurBeer for Consumers
but more about:
#SaveTheBeerStore, Increase taxes & provide cover for the mess that will created with the Hydro One sell off.

Wynne should be ashamed she got out negotiated by all the former government employees now working in the beer industry.

 

[nfitz]

What an absolute joke! So if i'm buying beer at one of the few grocery stores that carries beer, i now have to go through two check outs?

Three if you want Canadian wine. Perhaps LCBO could add a fourth for liquor.

 

[gabe]

That is a solution, sure....but if I owned a grocery store, I would make it policy that all of my cashiers were able to work all of my cash registers....so I would not hire anyone under 18 for the cashier position. In a part time work environment, flexibility is a key element and having a group of employees that "can't work over there" is not an ideal situation. The 16 year old cashier still becomes a thing of the past.

What difference is a year or two going to make? Just train them to look at ID. Not that difficult. Most if not all the supermarkets i have been to in the states have mandatory photo ID. Doesn't matter if you're 21 or 91, you have to show photo ID. I showed my Ontario drivers licence, and the young girl behind the cash said she had to get her manager over to check out of state ID's. I don't see why we can't do something like that here in Ontario? We all have photo ID.

 

[spider]

Don't variety stores have 16 year old, probably relatives, cashiers selling tobacco now?

 

[wopchop]

What difference is a year or two going to make? Just train them to look at ID. Not that difficult. Most if not all the supermarkets i have been to in the states have mandatory photo ID. Doesn't matter if you're 21 or 91, you have to show photo ID. I showed my Ontario drivers licence, and the young girl behind the cash said she had to get her manager over to check out of state ID's. I don't see why we can't do something like that here in Ontario? We all have photo ID.

Legally, you must be 18 to serve alcohol. Whether you are simply taking payment, pouring drinks, or serving drinks.

 

[wopchop]

Don't variety stores have 16 year old, probably relatives, cashiers selling tobacco now?

The minimum age to sell tobacco is effectively 14-years old (as the OHSA regulations stipulate that an employee must be at least 14 years old to be eligible to work) as the Smoke Free Ontario act does not regulate the age of sellers.

 

[TOareaFan]

What difference is a year or two going to make? Just train them to look at ID. Not that difficult. Most if not all the supermarkets i have been to in the states have mandatory photo ID. Doesn't matter if you're 21 or 91, you have to show photo ID. I showed my Ontario drivers licence, and the young girl behind the cash said she had to get her manager over to check out of state ID's. I don't see why we can't do something like that here in Ontario? We all have photo ID.

Don't variety stores have 16 year old, probably relatives, cashiers selling tobacco now?

Again, I am not commenting on what should be done..just that the changes announced yesterday mean that, under current laws (and there was no discussion or suggestion yesterday that those laws are changing) certain people working cash registers now, or hoping to in the near future, will not be able to if the cash out process for beer in grocery stores is through the existing cash registers.

Unlike cigarettes, we have a law that prohibits anyone under the age of 18 of selling or distributing or serving alcohol.

 

[jozl]

Since I started this thread I feel I should weigh in on the governments' stated changes. While I agree with SweetWater's analyses

This whole exercise by Kathleen Wynne has not been about #FreeOurBeer for Consumers but more about #SaveTheBeerStore, Increase taxes & provide cover for the mess that will created with the Hydro One sell off.

I'm hoping that this is just the thin edge of the wedge. It's obvious that Queens Park has no interest in allowing free enterprise determine the price of beer - or any other alcoholic beverage sold in stodgy old Ontario. Until that changes we won't see much more in the way of convenience or lower prices for consumers. But, I see this as an ok first step. Why only allow beer in 450 supermarkets? Why not in convenience stores? Why are we still limited to 6 packs? Why isn't wine included? Why allow price fixing? Why limit the hours to match those of the Beer Store? Why cordon off the "beer section"? I'm sure we can all take a pretty good stab at answering these questions fairly accurately. The bottom line is Queens Park should not be in the retail business, period.
I hope the Toronto Star keeps up the pressure. I know I will. It's absolutely irksome the way our elected officials dole out little "favors" to the people that elected them while giving away the bank to special interest groups i.e. The Beer Store.
Nevertheless, I will enjoy the new changes. I'd rather buy my beer in a supermarket than in an LCBO or TBS if only out of spite.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I won't be satisfied until Ontario gets the roughly the same sort of alcohol regulations as they have in Germany. See link.

 

[Johnny Au]

I won't be satisfied until Ontario gets the roughly the same sort of alcohol regulations as they have in Germany. See link.

Oh, and Germany's legal drinking age is 16 (14 with a parent), so of course they can have such liberalized beer sales. Good luck trying to petition Wynne to drop the legal drinking age.

It is interesting that beer would require a separate checkout from the rest of the grocery store and thus would require a rather large footprint, which means that some grocery stores would simply be too small (even major grocers such as the specific Sobeys at the Marlee and Ridelle location would be too small) to sell them. Electronics require a separate checkout from discount department stores (such as Wal-Mart and RIP both Zellers and Target) anyways, and yet, not many complain about that.

The beer checkout would be staffed by those 18 and over and the general grocery checkout (does not check out beer) can be staffed by high school students wanting to build up their resumés and get some cash for post-secondary.

The new beer tax is said to pay for transit, but it may as well fund health care.

 

[salsa]

Since I started this thread I feel I should weigh in on the governments' stated changes. While I agree with SweetWater's analyses I'm hoping that this is just the thin edge of the wedge. It's obvious that Queens Park has no interest in allowing free enterprise determine the price of beer - or any other alcoholic beverage sold in stodgy old Ontario. Until that changes we won't see much more in the way of convenience or lower prices for consumers. But, I see this as an ok first step. Why only allow beer in 450 supermarkets? Why not in convenience stores? Why are we still limited to 6 packs? Why isn't wine included? Why allow price fixing? Why limit the hours to match those of the Beer Store? Why cordon off the "beer section"? I'm sure we can all take a pretty good stab at answering these questions fairly accurately. The bottom line is Queens Park should not be in the retail business, period.
I hope the Toronto Star keeps up the pressure. I know I will. It's absolutely irksome the way our elected officials dole out little "favors" to the people that elected them while giving away the bank to special interest groups i.e. The Beer Store.
Nevertheless, I will enjoy the new changes. I'd rather buy my beer in a supermarket than in an LCBO or TBS if only out of spite.

Plan for wine sales in supermarkets coming before summer’s end, says privatization czar Ed Clark.

http://www.thestar.com/news/queensp...on-guru-ed-clark-now-sets-sights-on-wine.html

 

[nfitz]

I don't see why we can't do something like that here in Ontario? We all have photo ID.

I've seen 70-year olds photo IDed in New York grocery stores. While it's better than lining up twice (or 3 times if you want wine as well), it does seem a little silly; if the 70-year old had forgotten their photo-ID at home, would you refuse the sale?

 

[TOareaFan]

I've seen 70-year olds photo IDed in New York grocery stores. While it's better than lining up twice (or 3 times if you want wine as well), it does seem a little silly; if the 70-year old had forgotten their photo-ID at home, would you refuse the sale?

I was 35 (and quite obviously over 21) when I attended a hockey game in Pittsburgh....when travelling I empty my pockets before going out and carry the minimum that I have to (in this case cash and a c.c.)....arena policy was to id everyone.......I was refused a couple of beers in the intermission.

The only way to make such id programs fully effective is to fully enforce it....if you start allowing individuals to make the judgement at any line you might as well have no line at all and just say at cashiers discretion you may be id'd