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Taxis and ride-sharing in Toronto

^there's no possibility that a metered taxi fare in Toronto could (legally) vary based on cab company. There is a mandatory tariff, and the meters are set in accordance with the tariff. The only pricing differences that are possible arise from service charges for credit cards or interac, but that's a function of the individual cabs' payment processor, rather than the actual cab company. Anecdotally, I take 500+ taxi trips per year, mostly to and from the same places, and I use all cab companies. My fare doesn't change based on the company.
 
voxpopulicosmicum said:
^there's no possibility that a metered taxi fare in Toronto could (legally) vary based on cab company. There is a mandatory tariff, and the meters are set in accordance with the tariff. The only pricing differences that are possible arise from service charges for credit cards or interac, but that's a function of the individual cabs' payment processor, rather than the actual cab company. Anecdotally, I take 500+ taxi trips per year, mostly to and from the same places, and I use all cab companies. My fare doesn't change based on the company.
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Kinda. Some cab companies, like Uber, use standard cab rates and have a minimum mandatory gratuity (20% IIRC) which really makes it part of the cab fare.
 
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rbt said:
Kinda. Some cab companies, like Uber, use standard cab rates and have a minimum mandatory gratuity (20% IIRC) which really makes it part of the cab fare.
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I agree that there are a number of ways that the "un-metered" portion of the fare could vary depending on cab company. I was too restrictive in limiting the scope of possible variances to just POS service charges. Uber is a great example.

Admiral Beez said:
Screw that. Like my annual performance bonus, I can't earn it by doing my minimal job. Bonus and tips are paid out for extraordinary performance.
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But we both know that's not how the real world works in many situations. Lot's of companies pay lock-step bonuses. Many restaurants have automatic gratuities in certain circumstances. Some retail businesses will charge more than the actual service charge for customers that use credit cards. Uber extends the principle to taxis.
 
http://www.thestar.com/news/city_ha..._votes_to_overhaul_toronto_taxi_industry.html

Looks very interesting....

The vote created a new kind of taxi licence, the Toronto Taxicab Licence (TTL), which all plate owners must obtain by 2024.
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This is good news for everyone stuck on WheelTrans or who believes in accessibility for all. The extra cost for a likely infrequent need is a challenge, but no more than ramps, lifts and other accessibility tools on buildings and now buses. It's the new normal. Best of all, the days of ratty old Crown Vics and ex-police cars is coming to and end. I wonder if Nissan had an idea of this when they exhibited their taxi at this week's Toronto auto show?

Everyone with a TTL will have to use a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. That means the city’s entire taxi fleet will be accessible within 10 years. Since accessible vehicles are expensive and since only a small percentage of riders require such vehicles, brokerage executives said the requirement imposes needless costs.
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And the best part. This helps make driving a cab a real job, as opposed to a last resort of desperate newcomers.

Anybody with a TTL has to be at least a part-time driver. That means the end of fleet garages and the absentee non-driver plate owners, who were called exploitative by several councillors on Wednesday. Shift drivers at the meeting said the owner-operator model would mean cleaner cars.
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And we know it must be in the best interest of the drivers and their passengers when this lady is not happy. Which people is it going to hurt? No one who actually does the work, I imagine.

Said Beck Taxi operations manager Kristine Hubbard: “I haven’t fully absorbed what all this means, but it’s going to hurt a lot of people. And I don’t know how many people it really helps.
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Here's the legal action by the plate owners....

http://www.taxinews.com/legalactionstill.html

Many veteran owners, brokers and drivers have been pushed to the breaking point by the Review’s recommendations calling for the gradual conversion to a new Toronto Taxi License and 100 percent on-demand wheelchair accessible taxi service à measures they say would destroy the value of the Standard plate, diminish customer service, and quite possibly spell the end of the business (with the heightened expenses and burden of additional competition for already scarce earnings).

“We haven’t much choice,” Independent Toronto Taxi Inc. president Mike Tranquada said prior to the L&S meeting. “The taxi owner’s plate is worth $350,000 in Toronto, and the City wants to take them back from us. The City has painted us into a corner.”
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And here's the entitlement of plate owners...

Many industry leaders view the By-Law changes pertaining to ownership as the latest attack on plate equity (dating back many years to when Howard Moscoe deemed himself the “taxi expert” on Council). What’s more, they claim this reneges on the promise of a Standard plate (known as the “driver’s pension), made to every driver who passed through the MLS driver training school prior to 1998.

“I’ve been in the business over 40 years, do you not think I’m entitled,” Manley asks. “I should be eligible for two plates and I haven’t got one.”

“I predicated my business model and my future on that promise. They broke every promise to me, and now they want to take away the value of the plate I do have. I think the plate-holders will take a dim view of this.”
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Could you imagine any other service requiring a city permit that could be sold? Can you inherit or sell food truck permits?
 
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Admiral Beez said:
Everyone with a TTL will have to use a wheelchair-accessible vehicle. That means the city’s entire taxi fleet will be accessible within 10 years. Since accessible vehicles are expensive and since only a small percentage of riders require such vehicles, brokerage executives said the requirement imposes needless costs.
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This seems like it will have very expensive repercussions. If it is taken to the logical conclusion, this also means that every TTC entrance will have to bee wheelchair accessible (i.e. have 2 elevators) and not just one entrance per station. It also means that all parking spots will have to be wheelchair accessible and not just the few near the doors. (I am not sure if this just means that all spots would be 1.5 times the normal width or would they all have the blue sign and non-wheelchair people would have to shop in Mississauga or Vaughan.
 
Admiral Beez said:
And here's the entitlement of plate owners...

Could you imagine any other service requiring a city permit that could be sold? Can you inherit or sell food truck permits?
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I think the way that the city has proposed this may be subject to legal challange (phasing out the absent owner). Expropriation of property issues.

However, they could add additional regulations which would increase the costs to these owners (only to the extent they are reasonable). They could have added:
- Wheelchair accessible
- Increased maintenance testing (I can't wait to find a taxi with actual shocks!...other than Imperial Taxi's...I get yelled at by other drivers when I skip the front of the line and head directly to the Imperial Taxi)
- random roadside spot checks paid for by an increased fee paid to city
- and what Toronto NEEDS....the knowledge exam like London. Every Driver must be licensed and passes this test (in London it takes over 2 years to pass it). This would create a shortage of supply of drivers vs vehicle licenses which by pure economics will drive up the drivers wage and lower the price they have to pay the owner of the car
- recurring testing/criminal checks of drivers again paid for by increased fees from the group
 
muller877 said:
I think the way that the city has proposed this may be subject to legal challange (phasing out the absent owner). Expropriation of property issues.
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It also depends on the legal status of the taxi plates. Are they considered property and owned by the holder, or are they considered a license owned by the city, and permitted to be used by the plate holder.

Either way, this may not even get to the Supreme Court, as they can decided without stated reason to hear a case. If it does go to the top court, it will be by 2018 or thereabouts.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Either way, this may not even get to the Supreme Court, as they can decided without stated reason to hear a case. If it does go to the top court, it will be by 2018 or thereabouts.
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Why go to court when you don't have to?

What is the purpose of the changes to the taxi licenses? It seems that a lot of the shift to owner/operator is based on ideology and not on what's best for Toronto.

Clean cars? I have seen both types of cars dirty and spotless...they just needs standards and enforcement of them with significant fines.

Quality of the car? Again, both have pro's and con's (the Ambassador cabs which were newer were better but now that they are older I don't think there is a difference). Large fleets would have the ability to have an ongoing repair schedule and the owner/operator may have cash flow issues for vehicle repair/replacement. The quality should have a regulated minimum.

And as for ideology, I don't understand the long-term goal here. These new licenses will have a determined market value (I'm guessing $250,000). The current owners won't just give their license away. They will sell them to the highest bidder. A lot of the current drivers won't be able to pay this price which will keep them as hired drivers, not owners. Who will own these licenses? Who will pay for them? Depending on the transferability banks may loan some money but I expect a lot will have to turn to shady loan sharks (and now its worse...we may have criminals controlling the taxi industry via loan sharking)
 
^Wow! "Loan sharking"? Fearmonger much? Can't you squeeze in an Al Qaeda reference for good measure? Doesn't taxi licence reform somehow increase the prevalence of pedophilia?

Back here in the real world, I take many hundreds of taxi trips per year in Toronto. When I travel to other cities and take cabs I am always astounded at how much cheaper cab fares are elsewhere than here. I cannot help but think that much of this expense is a direct result of non-driving, plate-owing leeches siphoning a big chunk of my fares into their grubby pockets. Certainly, I can tell that the poor plate-renting drivers aren't getting rich from my cab fares. Nor does it appear that much money is spent on making the cabs more comfortable, or accommodating passengers with special needs. By contrast, the drivers who own plates seem to be doing okay, and their cars are nicer.

It's heartening that city council has finally grown a spine to stand up to usurious plate owners. There is no need for ideology in this debate. "Owning" a plate, by itself, extracts money from the taxi industry without giving anything of value in return.

Wow! There's a subject on which Admiral Beez and I agree. I don't know for sure, AB, but is this a first? It feels like a first.
 
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