Spate of Pedestrian Deaths in GTA

[gristle]

Why are you saying this? Why are you blaming the victim of murder for his death? Why are you saying things that are not true?

The police are saying the guy was plowed down while standing on the sidewalk, and have started a murder investigation.

I find it very distasteful to be assigning blame to a dead person whose body isn't yet cold very distasteful, particularly when there is evidence it was the driver's fault. What if his family and friends are reading this?

Surely you should be waiting for the facts, rather than simply assuming the pedestrian is to blame for his own murder.

If a pedestrian walks onto a street without looking out for oncoming traffic and is hit by a driver who can't stop on time, it's not the driver's fault. If a person operating a vehicle jumps the curb for the express purpose of hitting and killing someone, it's murder. Not all pedestrians being struck by cars are automatically cases of murder.

 

[nfitz]

If a pedestrian walks onto a street without looking out for oncoming traffic and is hit by a driver who can't stop on time, it's not the driver's fault.

In the case in question, the car drove onto the sidewalk in an apparent attempt to murder the pedestrian. How is this not the driver's fault?

 

[Admiral Beez]

In the case in question, the car drove onto the sidewalk in an apparent attempt to murder the pedestrian. How is this not the driver's fault?

No one has suggested that in this circumstance that the driver was not at fault.

 

[Dilla]

I was cycling up St. George yesterday evening, and I couldn't believe the number of people who were just stepping out across the road without so much as a cursory glance for traffic. I understand they're students, and that between College and Bloor this road has a lot of pedestrian traffic. Vehicles should know to go real slow and keep their eyes peeled, but as the ones who are going to end up dead, I was amazed at the caviler attitude of the people walking about.

I very nearly hit someone at Bloor when they stepped out against the lights onto St. George. This was at a busy intersection at 5pm, and they didn't even look. It's amazing it more accidents don't happen.

 

[nfitz]

No one has suggested that in this circumstance that the driver was not at fault.

]You posted about this very accident when the body was still warm and said "this is likely another case of a person walking into the road space, assuming traffic will give him the legal right of way and paying with his life. ". When challenged that it may not have been the pedestrians fault, and that you were making assumptions and you said "this guy's dead because he stepped into the road and got hit by a car."

It seems a bit much to now be trying to say that no one had said the driver was not at fault.

 

[Admiral Beez]

]You posted about this very accident when the body was still warm and said "this is likely another case of a person walking into the road space, assuming traffic will give him the legal right of way and paying with his life. ". When challenged that it may not have been the pedestrians fault, and that you were making assumptions and you said "this guy's dead because he stepped into the road and got hit by a car."

It seems a bit much to now be trying to say that no one had said the driver was not at fault.

You're absolutely right. Well said. I stand corrected.

 

[Danielinthecity]

I'm a driver and have had more than one instance where I've sufferred the angry glare of a pedestrian or cyclist for one reason or another...and I accept that...for me drivers are almost always at fault unless it's shown that it's a case of deliberate 'death by car' on the part of the pedestrian (i.e. suicide). And here's why.

1. I don't believe that motorists 'own' the road as many think (just read some posts on various media to see this).
2. With so much more land provided to motorists relative to pedestrians/cyclists, it's a little arrogant and selfish for motorists to automatically think they have no responsibility just b/c they hit someone on the 'street'.
3. Walking is a BIRTHRIGHT...driving is a PRIVELAGE...meaning that as a driver part of having the privelage to drive is that I accept the responsibility contained therein, which includes SHARING the space with other road users...

...and just b/c I'm in a big giant machine that I've been licenced to operate, and just b/c it so happens that society in the last 60 years has decided (through their love affair with the car bolstered by snazzy ads) that MOST land in a city will be given to accomodate driving and MOST planning decisions will first be considered always in terms of their impact on drivers, does not automatically relinquish my responsibility of using these privelages with care.

Motorists have been given more than their fair share in the last 60 years...they should not get too arrogant and instead should be grateful, especially when considered in the context of the environment and congestion, which is another topic altogether and I've got to get back to work...

 

[Admiral Beez]

..it so happens that society in the last 60 years has decided (through their love affair with the car bolstered by snazzy ads) that MOST land in a city will be given to accomodate driving and MOST planning decisions will first be considered always in terms of their impact on drivers...

From the invention of the wheel, domesticated horses and the bridle cities have been designed around wheeled transport, not pedestrians. Walk through any ancient city in Europe and you'll see roads throughout.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From the invention of the wheel, domesticated horses and the bridle cities have been designed around wheeled transport, not pedestrians. Walk through any ancient city in Europe and you'll see roads throughout.

Except that the Roman Empire's army marched on the roads they themselves built. The wheeled transport was for provisions and supplies. Horses were a luxury item.

 

[Danielinthecity]

From the invention of the wheel, domesticated horses and the bridle cities have been designed around wheeled transport, not pedestrians. Walk through any ancient city in Europe and you'll see roads throughout.

In addition to W. K. Lis's comment, you should consider exploring your statement somewhat with a bit of research. Based on a course I took during my undergrad (and some very interesting readings relating to various urban elements), urban spaces throughout Europe - including streets, served MANY more functions beyond that of 'movement'...not to mention the fact that the proportion of land dedicated to the street - and by extension 'some' mobility uses, was much less than it is today.

 

[PinkLucy]

I seldom drive downtown but tonight there I was, stuck in rush hour traffic in the financial district. I lost count of the number of pedestrians crossing whenever and wherever they pleased. One even stepped out right in front of my car when I had the green and he had a red hand. Lots talking on cell phones or texting. It's actually amazing more people aren't hurt.

 

[gristle]

In the case in question, the car drove onto the sidewalk in an apparent attempt to murder the pedestrian. How is this not the driver's fault?

Read what I actually wrote.

 

[Skeezix]

(I did a search, but this seems to be the closest thing we have to a thread on general pedestrian issues/safety on this forum. If I am mistaken, please let me know.)

The City is creating “seniors safety zones” at 12 intersections. Good thing seniors in this town only use those dozen intersections.

It seems that this Mayor and Council are more interested in token pedestrian safety measures with high visibility than in comprehensive measures that would actually improve the pedestrian experience across the city.

City to create ‘seniors safety zones’ to protect older pedestrians
Mayor Tory and public works chair Jaye Robinson reveal the 12 locations that will get enhanced safety measures.
Ben Spurr, Toronto Star, 10 January 2017

 

[rbt]

The City is creating “seniors safety zones” at 12 intersections. Good thing seniors in this town only use those dozen intersections.

I don't disagree. A general reduction in speed limits would be better but absolutely nobody has the political capital to be able to achieve that and not have it reversed, with prejudice, after the next election.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I don't disagree. A general reduction in speed limits would be better but absolutely nobody has the political capital to be able to achieve that and not have it reversed, with prejudice, after the next election.

Even if you have reduced speed limits, it's only as good as consistent enforcement. We have a bazillion rules - none are particularly effective when breaking them is more the rule than the exception. What deterrence does rules against speeding have when a ticket can be contested to the umpteenth level and then thrown out due to backlog?

AoD