Toronto Spadina Subway Extension Emergency Exits | ?m | 1s | TTC | IBI Group

TTC ridership is through the roof, as it's been for quite some time. How's YRT's ridership faring? How many cutbacks have they made to service? What's the YOY change? Why you never write about that?

Tell me the truth - how can one person be wrong so often?
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/11/ttc-brass-blame-economy-for-ridership-drop

"It’s the economy, stupid.
At least that’s what TTC brass think might — in part — be behind a steady drop in ridership which has put the agency in a $25-million budget hole"


STEADY DROP IN RIDERSHIP? 44North - snarky knower of all things other people don't know - just said it's THROUGH THE ROOF! And it HAS BEEN FOR SOME TIME! So there's no way that there are numbers showing a "steady drop" Lordy.

Whatever- there's no point having some grand philosophical debate about aesthetics and public works. You care or you don't. There's a reason people remember the name RC HARRIS and don't flock to Sherbourne Station during Doors Open, but at the end of the day, the fact is the decision is made, the things are built and you might as well move on.

EDIT: It's funny that people here are complaining about making the "Sorbara Line" stations too nice, as if they didn't do the same thing when they built the Spadina extension in the 70s. While there's another thread of people excited about the possibility of them reviving "Arc en Ciel," I'm guessing most of the people here think BLINKY RAINBOW LIGHTS is about the stupidest thing we could waste money on.
 
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Tell me the truth - how can one person be wrong so often?
http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/11/ttc-brass-blame-economy-for-ridership-drop

"It’s the economy, stupid.
At least that’s what TTC brass think might — in part — be behind a steady drop in ridership which has put the agency in a $25-million budget hole"


STEADY DROP IN RIDERSHIP? 44North - snarky knower of all things other people don't know - just said it's THROUGH THE ROOF! And it HAS BEEN FOR SOME TIME! So there's no way that there are numbers showing a "steady drop" Lordy.

Whatever- there's no point having some grand philosophical debate about aesthetics and public works. You care or you don't. There's a reason people remember the name RC HARRIS and don't flock to Sherbourne Station during Doors Open, but at the end of the day, the fact is the decision is made, the things are built and you might as well move on.

I'm well aware of the 2015-2016 ridership, so no need to copy/paste a Sun article. But alas our ridership is through the roof. Hey, how about answering the question about YRT's service cutbacks and YOY ridership? Does it not mend well with your fact-based (but not fact-based) rhetoric that "YRT is better than TTC" and "York Region is more transit-oriented than Toronto"?

And believe it or not I do flock to Sherbourne station when the doors are open (but usu it's either Castle Frank or Wellesley). But I guess according to you those three stations are "utilitarian chicken **** operations", so it makes little difference.
 
I'm well aware of the 2015-2016 ridership, so no need to copy/paste a Sun article. But alas our ridership is through the roof. Hey, how about answering the question about YRT's service cutbacks and YOY ridership? Does it not mend well with your fact-based (but not fact-based) rhetoric that "YRT is better than TTC" and "York Region is more transit-oriented than Toronto"?

Do you understand the function of quotes in English writing? I've never said either of those things and, look up top, that's not what this thread is about. Meet me on the YRT thread and I can explain why you're wrong about those things there. This thread is for why you're wrong about SPADINA.

In the meantime, I've got it: Ridership IS through the roof, just not the part that's dropping steadily and also strawman strawman strawman strawman strawman strawman strawman strawman.

And believe it or not I do flock to Sherbourne station when the doors are open (but usu it's either Castle Frank or Wellesley). But I guess according to you those three stations are "utilitarian chicken **** operations", so it makes little difference.

Bully for you, urban explorer. You're a true public works proletarian.
 
Can we please bring the temperature down a little bit in the discussion here?

Anymore yelling or ad hominem attacks will be deleted.

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Moscow's metro stations were built to be palatial to show that the government existed to serve the common man

It worked too. On Line 6 (the nicer looking stations) I observed thousands of people just hanging out on very hot days or late evening as a waiting place for friends.

I can't think of the last time someone asked to meet-up on a specific section of a TTC platform rather than a local retail joint.
 
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screen-shot-2016-07-15-at-11-52-58-am-png.81274

Is that swiss cheese?
 
It worked too. On Line 6 (the nicer looking stations) I observed thousands of people just hanging out on very hot days or late evening as a waiting place for friends.

I can't think of the last time someone asked to meet-up on a specific section of a TTC platform rather than a local retail joint.

Can you elaborate on this line 6? Is the station in question a terminus? Either way those so called nicer looking stations were built in the soviet era when the economic situation was much different than today. Even Toronto back then had the money to spend.
But these are considered luxuries today that we dont have. Honestly I would rather save the money on a functional cookie cutter and use it for other useful things such as ATC or new rolling stock. Besides what artistic or tourist value is there at Highway 407? well....maybe they can put a plaque reading "here lies Canada's only privately tolled expressway". Thats worth a photo or two...
 
Because the TTC has been amazing at maintaining and upkeeping existing stations with the barebones brick, tile and bland design? I can't remember a moment in my life when Finch wasn't "undergoing refurbishment". I think unique materials are the least of our worries if they tend to last longer than what we already have because I have zero faith in the TTC actually being able to maintain them aesthetically.

Aesthetically pleasing <> non-funcitonal design. You're criticizing designs that had to compete with numerous other bidders. Do you really think Transit Architecture firms don't realize the use-case of their designs? There's going to be a bunch of stuff in the finished product to make them easy to maintain and ensure they last.

One of my favourite stations, Dupont, has a pretty big art component, and it's hardly falling apart even though it has tiny tiles instead of the standard rectangular ones.

Believe me, I've ranted on about the TTC's maintenance record. Not to mention the lengthy capital improvements/second exits/elevators. But I think this speaks more to the point about scarce funds, and whether it's wise to build the best for new projects when we have numerous other projects requiring funding/attn.

And I love Dupont. I'd consider it pretty simple and bare bones.

Can you elaborate on this line 6? Is the station in question a terminus? Either way those so called nicer looking stations were built in the soviet era when the economic situation was much different than today. Even Toronto back then had the money to spend.
But these are considered luxuries today that we dont have.

True. And what's interesting about your point of costs/eras is that the two cities used as examples on the previous page for their palatial and beautiful subway/metro stations are now both building simpler light metros (Moscow's most recent Line 12 and Mtl's REM plan). So even the cities with the supposed greatest stations are now contemplating the sacrifice of great for slightly less great.
 
Can you elaborate on this line 6?

Sure. Line 5 (sorry about the typo above) is the inner circle line (an outer circle line is kinda being built in bits and pieces). Since it's a circle line, there is no terminus station. Every single one is now an interchange station and absolutely gorgeous, but several would have been stand-alone when built. I'm not sure if they had other network additions in mind when building them or not. All stations on the line have a central common section with plenty of benches (and excellent cell signal/wifi), tight arches, then platforms. So imagine a station like museum where the pillars are mostly 6 to 8 foot wide and deep, arched, and the central area is fairly large. The central area isn't all that loud, somehow the arches suppress quite a bit of the noise from the trains.

Here's an arch from the platform looking through to the central area and eventually the other platform on the other side:


The older and more ornate looking pictures are mostly from the circle line:
http://www.businessinsider.com/moscow-subway-pictures-2010-10?op=1

It was built early in the cold war (mid 60's) after they had a couple decades of experience running subway trains from Line 1. Line 1/2/3 stations are pretty utilitarian, as is most of the stuff from the 80's and 90's. Some of the stations from 2000+ are more involved in a modern-art manner.

I spent about half a day roaming around Line 5. The paintings, mosaic tile artwork ,and chandeliers in the stations makes it worth a trip to Moscow. I booked last year shortly after the Ruble dropped.

It's also true that the trains run on 90 second intervals very reliably. There was 1 case where a train was late and the local started complaining to each-other (and me despite my not speaking Russian) at about the 2 minute mark; all stations have clocks that count up from the last train.
 
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I think of the stations being built the only ones that seem to fit the surrounding areas well are downsview, York U and Vaugh. The others should be a much smaller scale to fit in with the area around them But either way they are better than most of the downtown stations that mainly only exist under ground except for Dundas which has a few levels thath interconnect with the north end of the eaton Centre.
 
I took a quick wiki look at the moscow subway and I do admit that even their newest stations look quite nice. For sure the grand sculptures that were on the earlier built stations simply cant be replicated today, since its more or less and dying/lost art
I wonder though just how much was spent on their latest extensions? One thing for sure is that most of their underground stations follow a similar basic vault layout; a cookie cutter design similar to the lower univeristy line stations (dupont, queens park). They probably saved a lot of money there versus all the natural lighted stations that we are trying to build now. Less money on needless engineering and more on finishing.
 
Dunno dude, calling all our 69 stations "crappy" sounds pretty "whiny". And unfortunately for you the future stations won't all be built to "this standard" (see: Crosstown).

I think the existing stations we have save for like Downsview and 1 or 2 or others are crappy inside and out. Sue me.

The Crosstown stations we have are 100 times better than the crappy stations we have now and shows that we are finally taking design serious.

We are finally joining other cities who are building fantastic transit like these stations instead of the banal crap we have:

Crossrail_Station_London_05.jpg


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lyon5.jpg


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Cheapening out on the stations for this line won't get anymore more transit built.
 
All depends on the budgets for the above stations your are comparing. The oculus station terminal itself costs more that ECT East and West COMBINED
Then again, the stations that you show above are terminus or large interchange stations where maxium public/tourist exposure is expected and demanded. I can almost guarantee most of the line stations are much more subdued
 
Downsview Station is the only station the TTC have that's built nicely, under a budget and in a timely manner. TYSSE is way over budget and it's still not done.
 
Meanwhile, people are busy buying condos around the new stations, that are not even finished or even started yet.

See link.

How public transit affects home values in Toronto

A residential building boom is predicated on Toronto’s new subways and LRTs.

Business student Karan Kundra doesn’t own a car, and doesn’t expect to buy one anytime soon. He has, however, purchased a condo at Vaughan Metropolitan Centre, the terminus for the Spadina subway extension scheduled to open late next year.

Kundra won’t take possession of his one-bedroom-plus-den in the Cosmos tower until 2019. But whether he goes on to grad school at York University, where he is studying at the Schulich School of Business, or he gets a job downtown, his subway ride is only metres from his front door.

The Cosmos development is part of a residential building boom tied to Toronto’s new transit lines. These are the kinds of homes that planners and developers say will blur the line between urban and suburban living.

Public transit access boosts property values, and is increasingly a must-have for GTA homebuyers.

Kundra’s condo will be located deep in the suburbs, near Jane St. and Highway 7. But it will live like a city apartment, he said.

“I’ll have everything at arms’ length so I wouldn’t need to be purchasing a car. Cars are the biggest money pit,” said the Brampton student.

The location is also close to theatres, shopping and even golf courses, said Kundra, 19, who says the golf simulator in Cosmos is one of its best amenities.

Could he afford a bigger place further from the subway line? Maybe. But when it comes to space, Kundra says less is more.

“A lot of people my age think they should be living within their means. Having a huge house is not something that most people are interested in, just because there’s no time to maintain it. Cutting the lawn and those kinds of things add on to the amount of tasks you have to be able to do within a day. Being able to live in a condo where everything is accessible is something a lot of people are attracted to,” he said.

Cosmos “is probably the fastest-selling, highest-volume project we’ve done,” said Liberty Development’s Marco Filice.

His company bought the site about five years ago in anticipation of the subway. It’s an exciting time in the GTA, with increased possibilities of people living near their workplaces, he said.

“These opportunities didn’t exist 10 years ago,” said Filice. “People are more aware of the benefits of having the choice between transit and relying on the automobile. Our product provides behaviour modification for automobile dependents.

“The younger generation is not so enthused with the automobile,” said Jordan Teperman of Haven Developments, which is building a boutique condo called SIX25BV near Bayview Village, with easy access to the Sheppard subway.

“People want to be where transit is. They want to hop on a line and get anywhere. Every site we’re developing, you could get on a train at Union Station and get” there, said Teperman, who believes residents will accept less space in return for that convenience.

An enthusiastic booster of provincial transportation agency Metrolinx, he says Toronto’s been crying out for more transit for a generation.

“When we strategize where we want to buy products, this is a key consideration,” he said.

Transit proximity “is the single most important characteristic of development today,” said Peter Freed of Freed Development, which is building the 150 and 155 Redpath condos with Capital Developments at Yonge St. and Eglinton Ave., where the Crosstown LRT will intersect with the subway.

In addition to the Redpath buildings, Freed and Capital are behind the Art Shoppe Lofts and Condos and the Sherwood town homes near Yonge and Eglinton. The area is evolving dramatically thanks in large part to the new transit, said Freed.

He figures the pedestrian flow will double in the next decade, as transit attracts stores and restaurants bolstered by new residential and commercial development.

The Crosstown will also turn the area east of the Don Valley Parkway on Eglinton into a “major mid-town hub,” said Michoel Klugmann, vice-president of Lindvest. It bought the site for its Sonic tower at Eglinton and Don Mills Rd. from another developer in 2014.

“People talk about transit. They talk, talk, talk, but you can feel it. The stations are coming, people are watching the progress and they see it moving east on Eglinton,” he said. Condo buyers “expect real estate prices to rise and they want to be the first in,” said Klugmann.

Sonic, which will be near the Science Centre, Wynford and Agha Khan Crosstown stations, includes a public walkway that will allow neighbours as well as residents to access the transit. The landscaping also features a walkway with outdoor exercise equipment and a children’s play area.

“People say they want to live downtown but they want something a little quieter,” he said.

Nida Shahid, 31, and her husband rent an apartment near the Sonic, driving down the nearby DVP to their downtown jobs. But she is anxious to give up the traffic and take the Crosstown to work.

“I hate to be in traffic on the DVP. At the moment I can’t help it because the bus route is really crazy. Coming in late to work is not something I like, but sometimes I can’t help it,” she said.

Plus they know the area. They have friends there. “We were just waiting for this,” said Shahid of the 785-square-foot, two-bedroom unit they bought.

Her rental has a pool and a gym, but Shahid is already planning how she will use the amenities in the new building. “I’m very social. They’re going to have a rooftop terrace with a barbecue. I’m so excited about that,” said Shahid.

The couple have no children, but that could change. “That’s why we bought a two-bedroom,” she said.

It used to be that condos were for people who couldn’t afford to buy a house. That’s no longer the case, said Terry Lustig, development manager at Malibu Investments, which is building the Southside Residences at Gramercy Park near the Wilson subway station.

“More and more people are choosing the condo lifestyle even for families,” she said. “The more we improve the transit system, the more we will see people figuring out that getting to a transit-oriented location is the way to go.”

Home buyers are going to opt for convenience over space as the city and traffic grow.

“It’s really hard to find a house that has a subway in its back yard,” she said.

For Teperman, it’s only a matter of time before every transit station in the city becomes a hub of activity. He recently went to a trendy restaurant with his wife, who pointed out a TTC station nearby and wondered aloud why the corner hadn’t been developed.

“Two and a half weeks later, we put an offer on the site. I don’t want to tell you where but it’s a great area and it’s just going to bet better.”
 

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