Sheppard Stubway

[Rainforest]

How would Wilson make sense?

That might look odd at the first glance, but I can think of a few advantages of connecting at Wilson instead of Downsview:

1) It might be easier to connect the new Sheppard tracks to the Spadina and Wilson yard tracks. Aiming at Wilson means that the Sheppard line will run under Sheppard from Yonge to Bathurst or a little further, then tunnel south-west, emerge just west of the Spadina tracks, and run south parallel to them.

In contrast, aiming at Downsview means that Sheppard tracks will run perpendicularly to Spadina tracks (although they can gradually turn south around the yard after crossing Allen Rd).

2) Wilson is a better route than Sheppard W for a westward rapid transit extension. Wilson is longer, and is located halfway between Eglinton and Finch, two other emerging routes.

So, either the subway can be extended westward along Wilson in future, or Wilson LRT can be built. Either way, the Spadina / "Sheppard" subway connection at Wilson will lead to fewer transfers than their connection at Downsview.

Note that the distance from Yonge / Sheppard to Wilson Stn is almost same as to Downsview Stn, as the Spadina subway line tilts west. So, the construction cost should not differ much.

 

[Edward Skira]

Except that you'd actually have to drive the tunnels under existing residential neighbourhoods. Can't see them liking that very much.

 

[kEiThZ]

Except that you'd actually have to drive the tunnels under existing residential neighbourhoods. Can't see them liking that very much.

If the tunneling is deep enough, would they notice?

 

[Rainforest]

Except that you'd actually have to drive the tunnels under existing residential neighbourhoods. Can't see them liking that very much.

But Spadina line runs under some residential between St Clair W and Eglinton W.

 

[RedRocket191]

And don't forget the vast majority of the Danforth line.

 

[Conrad Black]

So call it line 2, with Yonge being line 1.

 

[andomano]

But building to Downsview would be cheaper... an obvious plus for the TTC, and without interference from NIMBYs. Downsview probably has a better chance of intensification also, hence the TTC overbuilding the station.

 

[Rainforest]

But building to Downsview would be cheaper... an obvious plus for the TTC, and without interference from NIMBYs. Downsview probably has a better chance of intensification also, hence the TTC overbuilding the station.

Building to Downsview won't necessarily be cheaper, as the second station at Downsview would likely be underground (versus elevated at Wilson), and the tracks would have to extend past Allen Rd. and turn to connect to the yard.

NIMBYs is a legitimate concern, but TTC / Metrolinx can table both proposals, and then drop the Wilson proposal if it encounters substantial opposition.

 

[RedRocket191]

I think it would be more progressive to look at why the community is opposed and then work with the community to reach a solution rather than pick the option of least resistant.

 

[andomano]

Building to Downsview won't necessarily be cheaper, as the second station at Downsview would likely be underground (versus elevated at Wilson), and the tracks would have to extend past Allen Rd. and turn to connect to the yard.

If tunneling to Downsview, then the TTC would be able to build in a straight line underneath the city owned streets.
If extending to Wilson, then the TTC would have to tunnel beneath private houses and as I'm told they have to purchase the land from the owners. (Alike the Spadina extension where land must be purchased from private owners - such as Idomo, which adds to the cost.) Then after all the tunneling, the outdoor section can emerge. (The whole route would not be elevated)

 

[Rainforest]

If tunneling to Downsview, then the TTC would be able to build in a straight line underneath the city owned streets.
If extending to Wilson, then the TTC would have to tunnel beneath private houses and as I'm told they have to purchase the land from the owners. (Alike the Spadina extension where land must be purchased from private owners - such as Idomo, which adds to the cost.) Then after all the tunneling, the outdoor section can emerge. (The whole route would not be elevated)

I did not know this. If so, then Wilson probably wouldn't work.

It is regrettable though, as a well-connected rapid transit further west would be easier to build if the two subway lines connect at Wilson rather than Downsview.

 

[unimaginative2]

The city isn't obligated to buy land just because they're tunneling underneath. Idomo and other sites were purchased because they were needed for an access shaft, ventilation shaft, emergency exit, or a cut-and-cover segment. Bored tunneling does not disturb the surface above all. I'd add that the TTC tends to overbuy land when it's building subways.

 

[ShonTron]

The TTC could also cut through Earl Bales Park and start heading southwest from there. It could then run east-west along a street like Bainbridge or Clanton Park until hitting Wilson Heights, where it could link up with Wilson Yards and then turn west. It would miss Bathurst and Sheppard, though, which could be a mistake.

Wilson would be much better suited as a cross-Toronto corridor until you get past Weston. Then what? At least that would be a neat place to start a web of bus routes or LRT along Albion, across to Rexdale via that unbuilt road alignment, or even up Weston Road North if that gets redeveloped. But this is nuts in the short-to-medium term, where the DRL, Eglinton, and the Yonge extension should be the priorities at this time, but I would be quite happy to see the Sheppard meet the Spadina line in any form, be it at Downsview or this suddenly new Wilson alignment.

 

[Rainforest]

The TTC could also cut through Earl Bales Park and start heading southwest from there. It could then run east-west along a street like Bainbridge or Clanton Park until hitting Wilson Heights, where it could link up with Wilson Yards and then turn west. It would miss Bathurst and Sheppard, though, which could be a mistake.

Interesting option.

Wilson would be much better suited as a cross-Toronto corridor until you get past Weston. Then what? At least that would be a neat place to start a web of bus routes or LRT along Albion, across to Rexdale via that unbuilt road alignment, or even up Weston Road North if that gets redeveloped.

Yes. Another opportunity is to cut under the residential area west of Royal York / Wilson interchange (if this is possible legally and fiscally), and create a subway / GO hub at the present-day Etobicoke North station, which is going to have frequent service to Union, Airport, and Brampton by that time.

But this is nuts in the short-to-medium term, where the DRL, Eglinton, and the Yonge extension should be the priorities at this time, but I would be quite happy to see the Sheppard meet the Spadina line in any form, be it at Downsview or this suddenly new Wilson alignment.

Definitely. I don't see a case for the Sheppard subway extension further than Spadina line within the next 25 years at least, as more pressing needs have to be addressed first.

Extension from Yonge to Spadina line should be considered sooner than that, as it will bring a number of operational benefits, especially in the context of both those lines being extended north.

 

[drum118]

Building the Sheppard line west make more sense than going east at this time.

By going to Downsview, you provide a relief line for the Yonge line as well providing a one seat ride to/from Union.

The station would be under the existing station with provision to go west at some future date. At the same time, you put a Y in to connect to current line and plan extension as you leave the Sheppard station to the west.

The connection to the the extension will be a lot easier than going south as well lower cost.

This way, every other train would go north/south for a single seat ride as well seamless.

A connection to Wilson yard will be needed if the Yonge line goes north as there is no land up in York for a yard. You could put a 4 track tunnel north of RHC that will hold 2 trains. You will need a connection from the Yonge line to the Sheppard line one way or another as it will allow TTC to get work train sooner on the line than the current way as well having more hours to do work.

I would still take the Sheppard line east to Victoria than Consumers.

Regardless how it done, transfers will still be require.

Again, where is the money for this idea since it never was in the Move2020 plan as well TC? If you add money to do this project, which project gets cut to stay in the $11B funding limit?