Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[toronto647]

The Line 4 extensions should be done in phases. Phase 1 Sheppard West extension, linking Sheppard West to Sheppard-Yonge, approximately 3km. Phase 1 would be much simpler to implement due to this small distance. Phase 2 would be the East extension, which would require more significant consultation and planning but should absolutely be built.

Should not be in done in Phases. Should be done like the Ontario Line - as in different contracts for different segments. Maybe 1 contract for the west extension, one contract for the east extension, one contract for stations and maintaince etc.. if its in two phases we would get the line for decades potentially lol

 

[mikey7767]

And in doing so, you'd aggressively limit the number of places which will get new transit projects.

And what is the harm in doing that, especially when the alternative is building multi-billion dollar LRTs that are slow, not grade separated, stop at stop lights, and have stop distances less than our Express buses?

 

[sixrings]

And what is the harm in doing that, especially when the alternative is building multi-billion dollar LRTs that are slow, not grade separated, stop at stop lights, and have stop distances less than our Express buses?

I remember in high school saying I wasn’t going to drive anything but a Ferrari. Then I realized there’s something between walking and a Ferrari. Things in between can be useful as well. That’s how I feel this argument is. I only want a subway and if not I’d rather walk and or work from home and complain about it for the next 50 years.

 

[T3G]

And what is the harm in doing that, especially when the alternative is building multi-billion dollar LRTs that are slow, not grade separated, stop at stop lights, and have stop distances less than our Express buses?

Did you really just ask what is the harm in delivering less transit to people?

So Toronto gets to hog all the transit monies, because Torontonians feel that the transit projects that may be given to other, smaller communities with infinitely crummier transit, are not up to their standards?

No wonder the rest of this country hates us.

 

[duty free]

Did you really just ask what is the harm in delivering less transit to people?

So Toronto gets to hog all the transit monies, because Torontonians feel that the transit projects that may be given to other, smaller communities with infinitely crummier transit, are not up to their standards?

No wonder the rest of this country hates us.

hog all the transit monies? Toronto has never gotten enough transit monies. give it all to us.

small communities? really? bad transit planning is what happens when politicians try to buy votes.

 

[T3G]

bad transit planning is what happens when politicians try to buy votes.

And what do you imagine this insane push to get subways everywhere is? Good transit planning and economic sense????

 

[duty free]

small communities hahaha

And what do you imagine this insane push to get subways everywhere is? Good transit planning and economic sense????

yeah there's unfortunately a fair bit of that too.

subways should only be built underground in the most densely populated areas of the city. otherwise elevated will suffice.

i think there's some merit to light rail in the right scenario.

it's fine to question the cost benefits of multi billion dollars capital investments. automated trains are cheaper to operate than light rail/trams, which in turn is cheaper to operate than buses.

let's use an example. what would you have done in Surrey, extend the Skytrain or build a LRT instead? one makes a lot more sense than the other.

 

[mikey7767]

Did you really just ask what is the harm in delivering less transit to people?

So Toronto gets to hog all the transit monies, because Torontonians feel that the transit projects that may be given to other, smaller communities with infinitely crummier transit, are not up to their standards?

No wonder the rest of this country hates us.

What I'm saying is rather than building two shitty projects, build one good one. At the end of the day, you didn't address a single point I made about LRTs, you haven't been able to justify your point at all. Just because you consider building LRTs 'more transit' doesn't mean it actually reasonably improves transit or people's commutes. How about you try reading my comment again and actually addressing what I asked. They are slow, not grade separated, stop at stop lights, and have stop distances less than our Express buses. How about you address these factual points when responding to me being for less LRTs if you are trying to make a logical point. What can multi-billion dollar LRTs do that painting a bus lane red or having a bus lane on a medium can't achieve when it comes to speed/reliability?

 

[mikey7767]

I remember in high school saying I wasn’t going to drive anything but a Ferrari. Then I realized there’s something between walking and a Ferrari. Things in between can be useful as well. That’s how I feel this argument is. I only want a subway and if not I’d rather walk and or work from home and complain about it for the next 50 years.

Yeah, but there is no logical equivalency to your example and transit here. An LRT is nothing basically than a fancier streetcar, a marginal improvement from a bus. That's not "in between" walking and subways. And as for "in between" walking and subways, we have something called buses.

 

[GenerationW]

I remember in high school saying I wasn’t going to drive anything but a Ferrari. Then I realized there’s something between walking and a Ferrari. Things in between can be useful as well. That’s how I feel this argument is. I only want a subway and if not I’d rather walk and or work from home and complain about it for the next 50 years.

You ceased being funny years ago.

 

[sixrings]

small communities hahaha


yeah there's unfortunately a fair bit of that too.

subways should only be built underground in the most densely populated areas of the city. otherwise elevated will suffice.

i think there's some merit to light rail in the right scenario.

it's fine to question the cost benefits of multi billion dollars capital investments. automated trains are cheaper to operate than light rail/trams, which in turn is cheaper to operate than buses.

let's use an example. what would you have done in Surrey, extend the Skytrain or build a LRT instead? one makes a lot more sense than the other.

If you think LRTs costs are marginally cheaper than underground subway construction I promise you above ground subway construction is going to be so close in cost people are going to say just put the thing underground. Besides there is no appetite from people to have above ground transit in their area. I know we all think politicians and planners are complete idiots here but surely they have done their studies to know that the NIMBYs will uproar. It’s why eglinton east is at grade lrt, eglinton west is underground and why some people for whatever random reason hated the sight of the RT.

 

[sixrings]

You ceased being funny years ago.

I confessed this to someone from these threads in person today. Between coffey1 and onecity spewing subways subways subways rhetoric when we had a firm lrt network plan to watching the city defer spending, cancel projects, change projects, throw billions out the door I lost my damn mind. The liberals have some blame here. A lot of promises. Differed spending. What the fork does that really mean. Maybe if they were elected for 30 years they would have built something. Maybe. And I vote liberal. Ugh.

 

[sixrings]

Yeah, but there is no logical equivalency to your example and transit here. An LRT is nothing basically than a fancier streetcar, a marginal improvement from a bus. That's not "in between" walking and subways. And as for "in between" walking and subways, we have something called buses.

Well I guess the people who I think are loudest about subways subways subways are not actually typical transit users who rely on transit to get around daily but rather people who if they have to take transit once in a blue moon prefer subways. The one group is happy to have transit built as fast as possible and as far as possible because that’s how they get everywhere. The other group just likes to have a subway stop at their doorstep to get them to a maple leaf game. If they build a subway great. If they don’t they don’t care too much because they aren’t taking the bus. Those two groups of people are vastly different.

I guess there are people who want a subway because they believe it will increase their property value too. And I can’t forget the coffey1s who fully bought into the we don’t have a subway because we are looked down on by the urban elite but once we have one we will become an urban utopia crowd. And then there’s the crowd that wants a subway because they don’t want to give up road space and or look at public transit but they also don’t want the extra density because it would ruin their neighborhoods character. Anyways there’s plenty of reasons to advocate for a subway without actually wanting to use it yourself.

 

[sixrings]

What I'm saying is rather than building two shitty projects, build one good one. At the end of the day, you didn't address a single point I made about LRTs, you haven't been able to justify your point at all. Just because you consider building LRTs 'more transit' doesn't mean it actually reasonably improves transit or people's commutes. How about you try reading my comment again and actually addressing what I asked. They are slow, not grade separated, stop at stop lights, and have stop distances less than our Express buses. How about you address these factual points when responding to me being for less LRTs if you are trying to make a logical point. What can multi-billion dollar LRTs do that painting a bus lane red or having a bus lane on a medium can't achieve when it comes to speed/reliability?

The lrt can carry more people. It is more comfortable and smoother to ride on. People generally have a better image of rail transit than bus transit. It is harder to remove lrt lanes versus bus lanes which increases development in the area. It costs less to employee people to drive the lrt because you need less vehicles running. I guess I’ll have to spend some time googling all the positives that people associated with lrts from transit city to remind people. Also the lrts are there to make commutes within neighbourhoods better. So for instance most Scarborough transit trips begin and end in Scarborough. It’s actually the exception that people are using transit to go all the way from the suburbs to downtown. As a result lrts help those neighbourhoods. You can not like LRTs but to call them Shitty is disingenuous. The only thing shitty is the bus. And the only real benefit of them is their cost.

 

[NIV]

The success or failure of the Finch LRT will dictate what happens in Scarborough. Scarborough residents will be able to get downtown with 6 subway and 6 go train stops once fair integration happens. Scarborough in 20 years won’t look like the Scarborough we have today, Politicians need to design a system that will connect future population hubs, schools, hospitals and shopping centers with these Subway and go train stops.