Sharon Yetman's Subway Safety Plan (Better barrier for subways 'an obsession')

[subway safety]

Subway Safety

I want to comment on Admiral Beez's words.

To make such an insensitive cold comment. You obviously used to or are presently a TTC employee to speak so proudly of how successful TTC is in not having more deaths.

People such as yourselves just happen to part of the small fortuneate statistic who have not had suicide close to them.

You haven't had to take down a loved one hanging. You haven't had to deal with horrible tragedy more particularily have to witness it first hand while on the platform itself. This is horribly different to that of a car accident.

The real point is: an "open pit",..........with deathly electrification..........with fast moving trains................NEED SAFETY !!!

People should not be exposed to an unsafe environment plain and simple.

They have laws for overcrowding animal cages......what is the difference here! In fact, you go to jail if you have one too many animals in a cage.

What's the difference between a platform and a humane society's cage.

They are both holding tanks for a temporary purpose.

I am able to offer platform safety for between 2 and 5% of the traditional method used worldwide and TTC has not and will not meet with me. My quest is only just beginning.

People don't have to die. People don't have to watch it.

The Dragons Den gal.

 

[wagthedog]

I want to comment on Admiral Beez's words.

To make such an insensitive cold comment. You obviously used to or are presently a TTC employee to speak so proudly of how successful TTC is in not having more deaths.

People such as yourselves just happen to part of the small fortuneate statistic who have not had suicide close to them.

You haven't had to take down a loved one hanging. You haven't had to deal with horrible tragedy more particularily have to witness it first hand while on the platform itself. This is horribly different to that of a car accident.

The real point is: an "open pit",..........with deathly electrification..........with fast moving trains................NEED SAFETY !!!

People should not be exposed to an unsafe environment plain and simple.

They have laws for overcrowding animal cages......what is the difference here! In fact, you go to jail if you have one too many animals in a cage.

What's the difference between a platform and a humane society's cage.

They are both holding tanks for a temporary purpose.

I am able to offer platform safety for between 2 and 5% of the traditional method used worldwide and TTC has not and will not meet with me. My quest is only just beginning.

People don't have to die. People don't have to watch it.

The Dragons Den gal.

i may agree on the busiest stations but not every station. If there's enough room, no people around and you happen to carelessly linger in that yellow zone then fall, it's your own fault. if we do go that extra mile we're legislating stupidity.

and the only rail that is electrified is the third rail which is farthest away from the platform.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I want to comment on Admiral Beez's words.

To make such an insensitive cold comment. You obviously used to or are presently a TTC employee to speak so proudly of how successful TTC is in not having more deaths.

Wrong on all counts. No one is speaking proudly of anything, just putting the numbers into perspective.

You haven't had to take down a loved one hanging.

Who's hanging themselves on the TTC?

 

[wagthedog]

People don't have to die. People don't have to watch it.

The Dragons Den gal.

suicidal people are going to find a way to kill themselves, you take one method away and they'll find another. Not the best way to prevent suicides.

 

[jeffreym]

suicidal people are going to find a way to kill themselves, you take one method away and they'll find another. Not the best way to prevent suicides.

Indeed.

I know that one of the standard replies is that the desire to commit suicide is spur-of-the-moment and hence preventing it at a specific location can 'save' people.

There are a couple of problems with this from my perspective.

Firstly.. while suicidal individuals who commit suicide may make the choice to follow through with a spur-of-the-moment idea, it's important to note that they were suicidal to begin with. By this I mean that while platform doors may prevent their suicide at that time, it doesn't follow that the person won't follow through on their feelings and commit suicide somewhere else. Essentially, it's not solving the problem it's delaying it.

There may very well be value in that, but I'm just pointing out that the 'value' may be less than some might want to believe.

The other fact is that platform doors cost money. With the TTC's quote of hundreds of millions of dollars to equip the whole system I don't see how it makes sense.

There is of course the benefit of a reduction in delays, but I still don't foresee that making the whole proposition financially viable.

So to conclude... yes they have some benefit, but as with everything that costs big $$ we need to decide if the benefit is worth the cost..

That's just my opinion though

 

[SlickFranky]

Isn't that 150 dead number the total over ten years or so? The TTC's subway moves more than 900,000 people every day, that's over 328 million subway rides every year.

Correct. From the article here

From 1998 to 2007, 150 people died in subway suicides, according to TTC statistics obtained under Freedom of Information.

Year-Suicides-Attempts-Total
1998 12 13 25
1999 22 4 26
2000 21 12 33
2001 12 17 29
2002 16 11 27
2003 17 9 26
2004 15 8 23
2005 14 6 20
2006 8 11 19
2007 13 9 22

Surely sad, but the numbers are very low considering ridership. I bet toaster-related suicides are similar.

 

[afransen]

suicidal people are going to find a way to kill themselves, you take one method away and they'll find another. Not the best way to prevent suicides.

Actually, there is evidence to suggest that removing common means of suicide actually reduces the rate of suicide. For many cases, the decision to commit suicide is more of an impulse, and not a carefully premeditated act. Hence barriers on bridges actually help to reduce overall suicides, and not just suicides in that location.

 

[TO City of Light]

Posting for 20-30 years from now

Of course, once the barriers are up then in another 20 or 30 years the TTC could look at placing a covering over them allowing for heating in the winter and air conditioning in the summer without allowing all the warm/cool air to escape through the open tunnel.

We can start a thread on this in 20 years time but until then I'm posting here.

.

 

[Asterix]

To make such an insensitive cold comment. You obviously used to or are presently a TTC employee to speak so proudly of how successful TTC is in not having more deaths.

Why do people automatically assume anyone who disagrees with their belief to be obviously in the employ of whatever organization they are ranting against?

You haven't had to take down a loved one hanging. You haven't had to deal with horrible tragedy more particularily have to witness it first hand while on the platform itself. This is horribly different to that of a car accident.

You mean being hit by a subway going at 50 - 60km/h (as it enters the station) is so much different and worse than being hit by a car clocking 80 - 90km/h on an urban arterial?

The real point is: an "open pit",..........with deathly electrification..........with fast moving trains................NEED SAFETY !!!

People should not be exposed to an unsafe environment plain and simple.

Again with the dramatics. You realize there are literally hundreds of thousands of people walking everyday down sidewalks that have no barriers between them and cars/buses/trucks on roads with 60km/h speed limits? This is a huge threat to safety everywhere and must be addressed!

There is a bright and bumpy yellow line marking the edge of the platform. Everyone using the subway knows it is big and fast and therefore probably not a good idea to go hanging over the edge of the platform.

A fundamental question is just how far you want to go and how much money you feel should be spent to protect idiots who want to act like idiots. You've never answered my previous question as to the merits of spending all this money on one symptom of the depression problem instead of addressing underlying causes in mental health. Would we not be better off (and safer) in society if we didn't have people considering suicide rather than just preventing them from killing themselves in the subway?

What's the difference between a platform and a humane society's cage.

They are both holding tanks for a temporary purpose.

Are you seriously suggesting this is a viable analogy? Wouldn't a subway car or a bus with their much more constrained spaces be more appropriate to a cage? Do you see how silly this sounds?

I am able to offer platform safety for between 2 and 5% of the traditional method used worldwide and TTC has not and will not meet with me. My quest is only just beginning.

Either you have not read previous responses to your posts or you refuse to understand them.

What makes you so sure that your 1.5 years of thinking about passenger flow is superior to the many more years that scientists, engineers and other transportation experts have spent in academic and real world environments?

Why should the TTC allocate management time and effort to listen to each of the dozens of people who claim they have revolutionary solutions to previously well-researched issues but haven't bothered to put together a coherent and professional documentation and presentation? What distinguishes your amateur package from any of the others in the eye of a third party?

Lastly, I'm still confused as to your primary effort. Is your first priority preventing suicides or to improving passenger flow?

 

[andomano]

I personally don't think the issue with barriers is really about suicides. Someone commiting harm to theirself hasn't ever been as big an issue an when harm is commited to others. Pushers are probably more problematic in this regard to passenger safety to TTC. Like wag said, the suicidal will always find a way to do themselves in.

As bad as it sounds, and in reference to Asterix's post, it is probably better for the suicidal to jump infront of a train instead of a car since less innocent bystanders would get hurt. A train won't derail because of a body, but car crashes, and other victims, are almost imminent.

 

[Admiral Beez]

the suicidal will always find a way to do themselves in.

I do find it contradictory how on one hand there is a growing movement for the "right to die" or euthanasia, while on the other we feel we need to stop people from committing suicide. Who is to say that someone who appears to be healthy but is living with a terror in his head has no right to die, and must have his thoughts or behaviour controlled through drugs and State intervention, while some old fellow in a hospital can elect to pull the plug on himself. The latter is dignified death, the former is somehow a tragedy that must be stopped.

Perhaps it's because we assume that the old guy in the hospital living a painful existence is still in his "right mind" in wanting to kill himself. But what it right mind anyway?

 

[subway safety]

Subway Safety.

In answering Asterix,

My invention has the largest effect and benefits in "enhancing passenger flow" and "separating passenger flow"...and "enhancing train flow".

...it just so happens I feel passionate for those who no longer need to be exposed to those "dangerous" and somewhat "enticing" environments.

There are statistices suggesting that the unsuccessful subway suicide attempts suggest that I believe only 10% attempt suicide in the future and none attempt the subway suicide location again. This of course would include those who are not left in a vegitable state.

I have been granted 4 very big "key" meetings coming up this month.

My innovation will finally be understood for all that it entails. It just so happens it would be unfruitful and unprofessional for my to share everything here.

Stay posted for updates.

 

[Asterix]

My invention has the largest effect and benefits in "enhancing passenger flow" and "separating passenger flow"...and "enhancing train flow".

So you've done the previously suggested trials and studies to support your assertion you have the "largest effect and benefits"? Or is this still to be proven on the TTC's dime?

...it just so happens I feel passionate for those who no longer need to be exposed to those "dangerous" and somewhat "enticing" environments.

Nothing wrong with being passionate about something. Just helps to have focus in your intent. Do you pitch it to the TTC (or whoever) as a suicide prevention or as a passenger flow improvement system?

(If the former, would there be a greater reduction in suicides if money were to be spent on your idea to reduce subway suicides or on mental health to reduce the overall number of suicides?)

There are statistices suggesting that the unsuccessful subway suicide attempts suggest that I believe only 10% attempt suicide in the future and none attempt the subway suicide location again.

Although this isn't the issue that others raised with respect to people who were prevented (through barriers) of attempting suicide. I believe there is a difference between attempted suicide and those who are thinking it but prevented from attempting at their initial chosen site.

I have been granted 4 very big "key" meetings coming up this month.

With the TTC?

 

[subway safety]

subway safety

My 4 big meetings include separately: now 5 meetings

a TTC commissioner,
a Toronto Executive Councillor
Director of CUTA
Director of TEO
Director of Transportation,

I have waited a very long time to finally properly present.

TTC is doing back flips with their happiness on getting 3 new trains per hour,(My footprint and innovation I originally brought to them.)

TTC have no clue yet, I can transport over 50 extra trains! ....and they are all excited over 3.

Soon all will learn all the details.


The Dragons Den gal - Nov 4th. Inventor of the "Subway Barrier Wall with Enhanced Passenger Flow".

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

My 4 big meetings include separately: now 5 meetings

a TTC commissioner,
a Toronto Executive Councillor
Director of CUTA
Director of TEO
Director of Transportation,

I have waited a very long time to finally properly present.

TTC is doing back flips with their happiness on getting 3 new trains per hour,(My footprint and innovation I originally brought to them.)

TTC have no clue yet, I can transport over 50 extra trains! ....and they are all excited over 3.

Soon all will learn all the details.


The Dragons Den gal - Nov 4th. Inventor of the "Subway Barrier Wall with Enhanced Passenger Flow".

50 extra trains an hour? Nearly 1 extra train a minute? Sorry but not buying it.