AlvinofDiaspar
Moderator
It's cute as a comparison, but not very useful given the differences in urban context - also their Metro is probably playing the role of our (badly overloaded) streetcar network.
AoD
AoD
And comparisons like these tend to include the RER network on other cities but ignore GO on the Toronto map, so it's not a fair comparison (notwithstanding this map where there is no Toronto transit shown).It's cute as a comparison, but not very useful given the differences in urban context - also their Metro is probably playing the role of our (badly overloaded) streetcar network.
AoD
It's cute as a comparison, but not very useful given the differences in urban context - also their Metro is probably playing the role of our (badly overloaded) streetcar network.
AoD
I was just going to say that there are any number of reasons why comparing Paris and Toronto is misguided: Paris started building transit earlier, it's denser, etc. Having started building transit much earlier, they already went through a phase of getting rid of streetcars and building out the subway network so much that now light rail is being used to fill the gaps that are underserved by the metro.
Paris subway layout could also be because it has to by-pass a number of underground obstacles like the catacombs, historic sites, and sewers that can't be rerouted, and probably for other reasons that we can't think of.
You also have to remember that Paris in the late 19th century went through an massive tear down and rebuild of large neighbourhoods that lasted until the late 1920's. Resulting it's iconic wider avenues, parks and fountains.
Yes. Paris used have six or seven hills around it - they were all blown up but one: Montmartre.
Just a point of comparison:
Paris subway system imposed on Toronto map.
Note the complete lack of subways in the suburbs? Paris doesn't handle their suburbs with inefficient subways. They convert to regional rail.
(may be wrong thread for this, but dunno where else to put it)
Hahaha... the Metro used to go all the way to Rome and London, but Haussman shortened it and looped it around Paris at the same time he ran boulevards through the slums! Man, Napoleon was efficient...
They don't build subways into the suburbs, but they'd build them out into the lake? Okay.
Also, considering the divisions betwen inner city and suburb in Paris, the isolation of the suburbs and their exclusion from Paris, which culminated in many riots, I'm not sure that is the model for Toronto, especially considering Toronto suburbs own problems. And Toronto's suburbs are politically united with Toronto, not separate like those Parisian suburbs. Unless you are seriously suggest that Etobicoke, North York, Scarborough, East York, York should be kicked out of Toronto and no longer served by TTC at all. I don't agree with that.
You think I'm kidding?
I think we need to restart back at the beginning, focus on urban planning the former borough and city's outside Old Toronto as if they where separate city's on their own; I'm not arguing for de-amalgamation, that ship has sailed, but these former borough and city's need a plan that has their own distinct dense urban core that can grow over time that isn't just about how it will all connect with Old Toronto.
No, but you're exaggerating.
I wonder if the 4 Toronto Community Councils as well as local BIAs can have some role in facilitating these planning environments or frameworks for the future. It makes very little sense for instance, to have a "one-size-fits-all" approach to providing services (snow ploughing, salting, etc.) for the entire city when they obviously vary greatly in terms of urbanity and population densities.