September 11th: Real or Fraud?

[PinkLucy]

Prometheus, you've just messed up about a thousand conspiracy theories with your logic.

 

[Kamuix]

Maybe you have to get over your absurd belief that you alone have some sort of special vision about what is true or not true.

You talk as if only a small group of people come out and scream about conspiracies. Remember all I'm asking is for people to look outside the box. How the hell can you try and turn me not showing government controlled absolute proof into it being a tooth-fairy level of belief? That's BS why would you try to do that? It just shows that you have an agenda and shows exactly what it is. And yes it could be argued that because i didn't personally read official report that i perhaps should, I wouldn't necessarily call it narrow-minded, you're narrow minded because you won't get passed the fact that the type of evidence you demand is impossible to provide and it's obvious that you're using that as a defense against actually opening your mind for once in your life.

And why should people be doing this? Just because you say so? Face is Kamuix, you want others to do research because you have failed to come up with any evidence yourself.

I mean.. Common guys. All I'm trying to do is get people to look outside the box. I know it's easy to just hate what's socially unpopular.. But I guarantee you'll thank yourself if you just give it a chance. I'm not AT ALL asking you to just believe what I'm saying. I'm asking you to first open your minds because without that you'll get no where. And research on the net about Fluoride, Aspartame and other things! The Internet is different in that it's not at all government controlled. It's pretty much 100% free. At least right now.

Based on your admission, my assertion of a conspiracy on the part of 'conspiracy theorists' wishing to overthrow the government actually has legs to stand on. So far, that's way more evidence than you have offered throughout this entire thread. So according to your own admission here, you are attacking the government (you don't say which one) because you claim it's fraudulent (but you don't say how). You then whine about how you are not taken seriously, etc.

Anyone who doesn't know what that means wouldn't use it. I've provided tons of evidence, you're too conditioned I'm sorry Grissie! Your constant need for instant proof and facts shows that you dodge the idea of being skeptical of the government plus you dodged my question again. You're conditioned to believe what the establishment tells you and you've made that clear, so I'm sorry you can't see that the government is now going to screw you more and more as time goes on. Hopefully you'll wake up soon.

If you claim that a conspiracy exists, you have to prove as much. You have failed to provide any evidence to support your assertion. Based on that complete lack of evidence, you have failed to open your mind to the fact that you are wrong about the conspiracy you claim exists. That makes you closed-minded and a hypocrite for demanding that others open their minds when you won't.

Kamuix, then all you have is an opinion and nothing more. You have no evidence for a conspiracy, you have nothing reasonable to offer in terms of an account of this conspiracy, and even fail to comprehend the simple fact that your misunderstandings and lack of knowledge don't point to a plot or conspiracy. You refer to secret materials and confiscated recording as if you have actual knowledge of the contents of these things. You don't.

The paragraph of yours that I have quoted shows just how vague and empty your claims are. You operate entirely in the realm of supposition, offer no evidence, fail to construct what could remotely be referred to as a logical argument, offer no plausible counter-claim that can be backed up or supported in any reasonable manner and have the gall to suggest that anyone disagreeing with your bellyaching (because you don't even have a defined 'position') is somehow closed-minded or suffering from some unspecified 'conditioning' (which, once again, you offer no clear description, proof or evidence for). It's a terribly pathetic effort.

All you do is rehash the same empty statements over and over. As true believer, your "you just wait and see" stance comes off as hollow. When it comes to whatever it is you are promoting (joining your delusion festival or paranoia party), you really fall flat. And still, no actual evidence.

No. You're manipulating everything to try and make what I think about these events look ridiculous.. Give me a break!

Important Points:

I'm trying to get people to look outside the box and consider what i have to say and have shown.
I'm not offering what i say as absolute proof.
You won't offer proof for the side you're defending.
You keep making the same stupid argument over and over.
You don't address important things that I ask.
You've made up your own rule that because I made a claim I must show absolute evidence.

How the hell can you try and turn me not showing government controlled absolute proof into it being a tooth-fairy level of belief? That's BS why would you try to do that? It just shows that you have an agenda and shows exactly what it is. And yes it could be argued that because i didn't personally read official report that i perhaps should, I wouldn't necessarily call it narrow-minded, you're narrow minded. But at least I can address and and admit it whereas you won't address Sh*t unless i show you evidence that cannot be provided and for no good reason. Also obviously neither of us have read it, and I feel that I've seen more then enough to know that the official report was BS. You are completely unwilling to discuss this. All you do is use an impossible question to justify being ignorant and avoiding all my questions, my other points, anything i discussed that was a bit off topic. Not to mention avoid discussing the topic in a production way in general.

Poor Conditioned Grissie..

Don't you think it's a little weird that just because i don't show what you call "evidence" That suddenly I'm a crazy delirious person who's making up fairy tails built on nothing? It's one thing to say "you don't have proof so no one knows for sure if your information is credible" but to do what you're doing shows you've already built up a hate and we've been over you're unwillingness to be open-minded, in other words think outside the box and to quit letting your ignorant emotions get the better of you. I know there's other forum readers who understand what i mean. I've addressed every point you've made yet you refuse to counter most of mine.. You keep doing the same thing.. I'm not trying to prove anything atm. I'm just asking you to be skeptical remember? Government hasn't proved anything so to demand instant proof against a side but don't demand proof of the side you're defending is kind of hypocritical. This shows that you've been conditioned to believe anything the establishment tells you. Whenever i ask grissie something he won't answer it. Hey guys watch this.. hey grissie.. do you believe the official 9/11 report? Watch he won't directly answer the question. Of course most people posting here are also conditioned to believe whatever the government/establishment/media tells them so.. you're obviously going to take Grissies side.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Yes Kamuix, you've asked us to look outside the box. But I'm sure almost everyone here has done so and realized that it doesn't make sense. Whether it's the logistics, morals, or simply occam's razor, the world outside the box just isn't the best answer. You act as though we're all blockheaded idiots in search of enlightening, but it's not the case. We've all formulated our opinions on 9/11. We've all heard the tales of the government, the news, the terrorists, and the conspiracy theorists. Based on all those testimonies, we've decided that the government didn't bring down the WTC.

As entertaining as it is for you to just keep asking the rest of the world to believe, it comes only to a point. That point (which is long overdue,) is when the entertainment just turns into an unfunny rambling on, presenting the same deflated and hollow arguments over and over stating the same thing even though counterarguments have been made time and time again.

The battle of a conspiracy theorist certainly seems depressing. Trying to change people's minds with nothing but two pieces of brown bread and a big sign saying "It's a conzpirazy!" There is no substance in the arguments: no logic, no proof, and not even any emotion. I can't even compare it to a religion. At least a religion tells you something. Seriously Kamuix, what would you do if the US government said that they took down the twin towers? Would you do a little conspiracy theorist dance of joy and then move on to new world orders run by lizardpeople?

Are you ever going to realize that your argument holds no water? What would it take you to convince you? I think I already know the answer: nothing. Because the proof, however rock solid it is, will always be yet another government coverup, invisible to the unenlightened.

EDIT: /thread, please for the love of god

 

[Kamuix]

Watch Invisible Empire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO24XmP1c5E

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Prometheus, you've just messed up about a thousand conspiracy theories with your logic.

well, that's why the illuminati pay me the big bucks. oh crap, did i say that out loud?

but of course, my joke can be just part of the conspiracy because as the saying goes "there's a bit of truth in every joke". thank goodness for sayings, eh!. they keep the hope alive. long live the endless speculation!

 

[urbandreamer]

But we're talking about American politicians, the slickest weasels of them all! Liars.

 

[gristle]

You talk as if only a small group of people come out and scream about conspiracies. Remember all I'm asking is for people to look outside the box. How the hell can you try and turn me not showing government controlled absolute proof into it being a tooth-fairy level of belief? That's BS why would you try to do that? It just shows that you have an agenda and shows exactly what it is. And yes it could be argued that because i didn't personally read official report that i perhaps should, I wouldn't necessarily call it narrow-minded, you're narrow minded because you won't get passed the fact that the type of evidence you demand is impossible to provide and it's obvious that you're using that as a defense against actually opening your mind for once in your life.

I made no reference to numbers of people and I don't care about these numbers; I'm challenging you to provide evidence Kamuix. As for your repetition about looking outside of some box, you ignorantly assume that no one else has - but you don't know this. What really bothers you are individuals who look at the crap you post and see only shadows and fluff, and no hard evidence. As already noted, you hide behind a stance of open-mindedness when in fact you are most certainly closed-minded. You can't admit to being wrong.

As for your reading of what you call the official report, there is no arguing this point: you have not read it or any of the related documents. For that reason you have no grounds whatsoever to refute it because you are ignorant regarding the actual content.

Since you have no evidence and no clear account regarding what you claim took place, your conspiracy gut-aches have all the weight of a tooth-fairy story. It's all what you admit to being nothing more than opinion - and a very uninformed opinion at that! Your opinion is not evidence. Only you seem to not understand this salient fact.

And finally, you admit that you find it impossible to provide evidence that shows your claimed conspiracy. Nor can you provide any clear account for what you claim (ever so vaguely) took place. You have offered nothing of substance at all. Not once.

Common guys. All I'm trying to do is get people to look outside the box. I know it's easy to just hate what's socially unpopular.. But I guarantee you'll thank yourself if you just give it a chance.

Again, why don't you look outside your box? You are enchanted by a conspiracy you can neither describe nor prove. You offer nothing and then ask that others do research for you. You are intellectually lazy and don't even have the courage to posit the actual story and clear accounting of what you claim happened. You don't even trust your own opinion enough to actually spell it out in a clear manner. That, or you simply have nothing to offer except your vague paranoia.

I've provided tons of evidence, you're too conditioned I'm sorry Grissie! Your constant need for instant proof and facts shows that you dodge the idea of being skeptical of the government plus you dodged my question again. You're conditioned to believe what the establishment tells you and you've made that clear, so I'm sorry you can't see that the government is now going to screw you more and more as time goes on. Hopefully you'll wake up soon.

You have provided no evidence and whatsoever. As for "instant" proof, you have had this entire time to provide evidence to support you claims and you have failed to do so. Even though almost a decade has gone by, you can't even scape up an account of what you claim took place. That's a pretty stark failure Kamuix.

As for your idiotic babble about conditioning, not once have you supported this claim either. However, by challenging your empty assertions I've shown that my skepticism is quite intact, and that your capacity to offer proof is utterly empty. Your the one who has conditioned himself into believing in some vacant and nebulous conspiracy without any supporting evidence to back it up. Prove your assertions Kamuix. Start now. Wake and start producing.

No. You're manipulating everything to try and make what I think about these events look ridiculous.. Give me a break!

Incorrect. I'm challenging you to provide detailed evidence and a clear account to support your claims of a conspiracy. No break for you.

I'm not offering what i say as absolute proof.

You are not offering any proof. You have none.

You won't offer proof for the side you're defending.

Read through this thread carefully Kamuix. I've taken no side. I am challenging you to support your claims with evidence.

You keep making the same stupid argument over and over.

Verifiable evidence and a supporting account is not stupid. You have consistently failed to provide either.

You don't address important things that I ask.

In fact I have. Skip your silly attempts at diversion and read through the thread.

You've made up your own rule that because I made a claim I must show absolute evidence.

Proof of your claims comes by way of real, verifiable evidence. You have provided nothing in that regard. Zero.

It just shows that you have an agenda and shows exactly what it is.

Note how you fail to indicate what you think that agenda is. So now try prove the existence of any agenda on my part, and remember to provide evidence to support your claim.

And yes it could be argued that because i didn't personally read official report that i perhaps should, I wouldn't necessarily call it narrow-minded, you're narrow minded. But at least I can address and and admit it whereas you won't address Sh*t unless i show you evidence that cannot be provided and for no good reason.

You repeat yourself yet again. Before you attempt to refute a document, you should read it. You claim that it is without merit, so prove it.

The purpose of my participation in this thread is to challenge you to provide evidence to support your assertions regarding a conspiracy and to provide a clear account of what you claim took place. You have consistently failed to do either. As noted, I've taken no position. You have. Start proving that position with evidence.

Don't you think it's a little weird that just because i don't show what you call "evidence" That suddenly I'm a crazy delirious person who's making up fairy tails built on nothing?

I think it is completely reasonable (do you know what that word means?) to ask you to prove your assertions with evidence. Without any evidence or a detailed explanatory account to support your claims, all you have is a fantasy or a personal delusion. Take your pick.

I've addressed every point you've made...

I've challenged you to prove your assertions regarding a conspiracy with verifiable evidence along with a detailed explanatory account to support your claims. You have consistently failed to do so.

Hey guys watch this.. hey grissie.. do you believe the official 9/11 report? Watch he won't directly answer the question.

I have already answered this question Kamuix. Evidence of this can be found in this thread. I have not read what you refer to as the "official 9/11" report. In fact, you have consistently failed to properly name the report. As I have noted here, I'm not taking a position; I am challenging you to support yours regarding a conspiracy with evidence. You have failed to do so, and you will fail again. Why do you fail to address my challenge Kamuix?

Of course most people posting here are also conditioned to believe whatever the government/establishment/media tells them so.. you're obviously going to take Grissies side.

Provide an accurate and objective description of the "conditioning" you are making reference to. Supply relevant evidence to support this claim. Remember to produce citations for all references to any and all psychological literature in arguing your position.

Go on Kamuix, I challenge you: provide evidence to back up your claims. If you can't, finally admit that you are wrong.

 

[urbandreamer]

^Why should he? You're classic anti-conspiracy theorist type--aka, attack the messenger, not the message purposely to derail the discussion. It's a theory, not fact. I argue the gov't "blame it on muslim terrorists" is a theory as well. I choose to be skeptical. So be it.

 

[PinkLucy]

The thing is though, Kamuix hasn't, to the best of my recall, actually said what his theory IS or what he thinks happened that day. He likes to say "think outside the box" and "don't believe everything you're told", but he hasn't given us any indication of what he believes actually went down. (pun intended)

 

[urbandreamer]

^True. Kamuix isn't what I'd call an intellectual, judging by his posts.... However, just because he's too lazy to express his views coherently, doesn't mean he is wrong.

 

[PinkLucy]

Can't tell if he's wrong or right until I know exactly what his point is!

 

[urbandreamer]

^Seems obvious to me: he believes there's more to the story than islamic terrorists. Like who funded the terrorists? CIA or bin laden? bin laden was a rogue CIA operative, with known ties to the Bush family. Stuff like that is what's he's trying to say, although I'm afraid Kamuix smokes far too much dope....

 

[PinkLucy]

Lots of folks believe there's more to the story but they usually have details, like you have just given. Kamuix hasn't been that specific at all! Maybe you should be his agent

 

[Second_in_pie]

No, I'm pretty sure that Kamuix's point is that the government demolished the towers themselves. I remember some while back an argument that the planes couldn't have taken down the towers and the government must have loaded it up with tonnes of super-secret CIA thermite.

I certainly believe there's more to the story. I solidly believe the government got word of this beforehand to some degree, and maybe even left the opportunity to prevent it. But I draw the line at the government intentionally murdering innocent civilians at it's own hand. That's just crazy talk.

 

[urbandreamer]

^Really? You could argue any country that invades another illegally is both murdering its citizens (aka soldiers) and the people of the nation it's invading. Iraq and Afghanistan comes to mind...will Iran be next?