Admiral Beez
Superstar
One lesson Torontonians have to take from the Yatim, Loku, Eligon cases is that if you're considered armed and insane and do not immediately drop the perceived weapon, you're going to get shot.
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Sammy Yatim Shooting
- Thread starter M.R.Victor
- Start date
animatronic
Senior Member
The biggest lesson seems to be that your odds of survival are almost entirely dependent upon which cop shows up.
BurlOak
Senior Member
It depends on the officers factor of safety against getting killed.
Perhaps Forcillo was closer to what it should be compared to the cop killed by the 15 year old kid in a minivan, or the cop killed by the snow plow operator.
Perhaps Forcillo was closer to what it should be compared to the cop killed by the 15 year old kid in a minivan, or the cop killed by the snow plow operator.
Forgotten
Active Member
The other 50 officers on scene must have failed their training. Why are they still collecting a taxpayer funded paycheque? They should have been fired on the spot.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
And others. They're not exclusive of each other.
Police do not get paid to be shot and stabbed, but to protect others from threats, including knife-wielding crazies.
Look at this video. What would you have the police do, talk to her? This is what Forcilo's training told him was a very possible scenario, that Yatim would jump up and with the height advantage of the streetcar speed toward Forcilo with the knife. Meanwhile Forcilo knows from his training that he will likely score 25% hits on the rapidly closing Yatim, meaning you've got to shoot quick and often to remove the threat. That's not what I wanted to happen, but what TPS training tells us what is supposed to happen in this scenario.
What I wanted to have happened is for the TPS to be trained in deescalating situations with mentally ill folk, taze or bean bag him if needed, like here where TPS bean-bag an unarmed man http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...-lethal-arsenal-in-use-by-toronto-police.html and then get him the help he needs. But TPS training as it is means Yatim was going to get shot.
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sixrings
Senior Member
This video you posted shows a knife wielder which is lunging at the officer like Mike Myers. Sammy was contained in a streetcar. Yes he had a knife but where he was in regards to the officer is quite different. Also I too would be screaming at the person if they were coming at me. But in Sammys case there was all sorts of time to talk in a more calm deescalating manor. Based on your usage of this video It would seem that you believe the police are green lighting the officer to fire in any situation someone is holding a knife. I still have no clue why they just did not shut the doors of the streetcar and block sammy inside or block the door with a truck. I have a feeling someone was more concerned with winning then with doing the right thing.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
The answer may be in the testimony of the TTC operator. http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...bout-final-conversation-with-sammy-yatim.html
"Seymour said. He started walking west to give the police more space. He said he did not speak to the police and they did not speak to him or anyone else that he saw. He stopped and turned to look at the streetcar. Shortly after, he heard three gunshots. He started walking again. "
So, when the police arrives he said he walked away. He does not state that he gave any information to the arriving police, such as there's no one else on the streetcar or that Yatim was responding well to deescalation and asking to call his father, and certainly the driver did not offer to lock the doors - something the police may not know how to do nor have understanding that the person inside would be unable to open them.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
I believe the TPS training does give a very near green light here. For example, if someone is holding a knife (or a hammer, or scissors, or for the RCMP even a stapler), TPS training tells them to take out their gun. And you don't take out your gun if you don't intend to potentially use it. So, TPS shows up, you're holding a knife, out come the guns. Either you stand down, or you're dead.
kEiThZ
Superstar
I said at the time of the shooting that he'd be charged. Most of my military colleagues agreed. There was very little discipline and controlled escalation demonstrated. And from what we now know the threat matrix clearly allows them to draw weapons on a knife-wielding suspect.
The case shows how unfortunate it is that not all cops are equipped with tasers and body cameras.
The case shows how unfortunate it is that not all cops are equipped with tasers and body cameras.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Today's testimony of the woman to whose throat Yatim put the knife was impactful, IMO.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Can you link the testimony if possible. I too feel that the fear of the passengers on the streetcar is being over looked. Nobody stuck around to film the situation, no one even stayed nearby, they ran as fast as the could as far away from it as they could. Passengers were scared s**tless.
ttk77
Senior Member
What bearing does passengers' fear have on anything though? The streetcar was clear and no passengers were in danger when the shooting happened.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
I think it is an indication of the state of mind Sammy was in and the level of aggressive behaviour he displayed.
Admiral Beez
Superstar
I predict a full acquittal tomorrow before lunch.
picard102
Senior Member
We can only hope.