freshcutgrass
Senior Member
But if you will notice, after all nine shots are fired, they are still trained on him and still telling him to drop the knife. That's one tough kid....or one cop that's a bad shot.
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Sammy Yatim Shooting
- Thread starter M.R.Victor
- Start date
But if you will notice, after all nine shots are fired, they are still trained on him and still telling him to drop the knife. That's one tough kid....or one cop that's a bad shot.
js97
Senior Member
I will withhold pre-judgement until the full facts come out. I may even give the first 3 shots the benefit of the doubt, but 6 shots after is completely uncalled for.
It's either a trigger happy cop (maybe 2) or police protocol should be completely changed. i.e. how to engage a knife wielding maniac on a street car.
p.s. if you give every cop a tazer, they are inclined to abuse it (i.e. back in the days 2000' circuit)
It's either a trigger happy cop (maybe 2) or police protocol should be completely changed. i.e. how to engage a knife wielding maniac on a street car.
p.s. if you give every cop a tazer, they are inclined to abuse it (i.e. back in the days 2000' circuit)
Admiral Beez
Superstar
First sensible post here.
TOareaFan
Superstar
Yes...too bad it was followed with the following pre-judging statement:
This is one of these situations where even though none of us were there....the "facts" lead us to certain conclusions.
We have no idea if he was shot 9 times...we seem to know there were 9 shots.....like everyone, the surface information seems to point me to "something ain't right".....but we just don't know what was going on there.
gabe
Senior Member
23 police officers were on scene. It's disturbing to think our streets are protected by law enforcers who can't handle a kid with a knife in a quarantined environment.
dbailey62
Active Member
Nice backhand.
Interesting column from a writer I don't particularly care for who is usually quite pro cop. Not this time it would seem.
http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/28/teen-shot-on-streetcar-to-cop-youre-a-f---ing-pussy.
gabe
Senior Member
The officer who shot the teen has been suspended from his job with pay http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ronto-streetcar-shooting-video-questions.html
Forgotten
Active Member
The police officer was standing his ground.
Roy G Biv
Senior Member
Why do cops always shoot to kill instead of shooting to disable?
If the guy has a knife and starts walking towards you, shoot him in the leg...
If the guy has a knife and starts walking towards you, shoot him in the leg...
Marko
Active Member
We know 9 shots were fired, but considering the inaccuracy of handguns, it's safe to assume he was not actually hit 9 times. Very few police ever discharge their weapons - some go a whole career without doing it while on duty - and they tend to miss even at close range.
That said - 9 does seem excessive and it does seem like the option of tasering the kid was available to them. They don't train for leg or arm wounds to put someone down, which makes you think that more training and a wider range of options need to be available. I kid with a knife, trapped on a streecar by police, should not be shot unless he actually charges the officers. I watched the video, and it's clear the streetcar was emptied and he was on there alone... they could have sat and waited the kid out.
I'll bet only 1 of the first 3 shots was an actual hit and it seems even the follow up shots (or misses) didn't initially cause him to release the knife, hence the tasering.
A clusterfuck by any reasonable assessment. I feel sorry for the kid's family.
That said - 9 does seem excessive and it does seem like the option of tasering the kid was available to them. They don't train for leg or arm wounds to put someone down, which makes you think that more training and a wider range of options need to be available. I kid with a knife, trapped on a streecar by police, should not be shot unless he actually charges the officers. I watched the video, and it's clear the streetcar was emptied and he was on there alone... they could have sat and waited the kid out.
I'll bet only 1 of the first 3 shots was an actual hit and it seems even the follow up shots (or misses) didn't initially cause him to release the knife, hence the tasering.
A clusterfuck by any reasonable assessment. I feel sorry for the kid's family.
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TrickyRicky
Senior Member
Admiral, we don't know the facts so I will accept your response; however, any "sensible" individual would be seriously concerned with how it appears police dealt with that situation. A very clear explanation and justification by police would seem to be warranted.
dt_toronto_geek
Superstar
We've seen several versions of the tapes, we've read the eye-witness accounts. This poor young fellow was clearly having some kind of a breakdown, had some form of mental illness or was on bad drugs. Whatever the case, he was in an empty streetcar taunting police. This situation calls for negotiation and at worst pepper spray or a bullet to the leg if he rushed them (which he did not). Kill first, ask questions later - whatever happened to "To Serve and Protect". This is not the Canada I know.
voxpopulicosmicum
Senior Member
I agree that everyone needs to see how this plays out, but your post is ridiculous. I'm curious: do you always avoid forming an opinion when someone is killed, on video, by a person other than a group of a dozen heavily armed cops?
In any event, my previous post (which you deemed "non-sensible") was a verbatim repetition of part of a 2011 judgment by Justice Baldwin. Unless you're an appeals court judge, you're not qualified to second guess Justice Baldwin about whether something is legal.
I accept your apology.
typezed
Active Member
On the video you can hear someone saying, "If you take one step in this direction . . .,”. The Post now reports that that sentence ended with "die". Seems that one cop decided to get macho when the situation was in early moments. If it can be proven that the same officer made that threat seconds before opening fire, he should - in a proper world - be looking at serious jail time. Think the shooter is the one you can see toward the end of the video, standing alone outside the streetcar looking in, then walking away by himself, holding his arms out in that pumped up way, like George Bush used to do. I'm not a fan of the Toronto Police, think them too expensive and too disengaged with the community, but I don't know if I want to be out marching and shouting police brutality. If the whole force and their union close ranks to protect this guy, like they'll most likely do, then take them all to task, shake up the department. But right now I"m hopeful that one of the officers standing nearby that night will find the integrity to tell the truth and we can see someone held responsible.
junior43
Active Member
Still trying to reserve judgement, but it doesn't look good for the officer. Only other thing I can think of is, this kid had access to a 50 000 lb streetcar and had the potential to do a lot of damage to the city and others.
Shooting (especially this many times) does seem excessive right now even if he was reaching for the controls of the streetcar.
Shooting (especially this many times) does seem excessive right now even if he was reaching for the controls of the streetcar.