Rob Ford's Toronto

[jeff316]

Well, plastic bags don't break down - that's sort of the point

Besides, pick your poison: burning coal/generating grey water to make the reusable bags, or leaching in the landfill with the plastic bags....

The generation of energy and issues of waste/effluent from industrial production processes are problems for both types of bags.

I believe AoD is probably correct with his Trojan Horse comment but don't know that the courts would strike it down given the other things municipalities have been able to ban.

 

[ttk77]

The report states (for example) that if the average person reuses a plastic bag 40% of the time, you would need to reuse a cotton bag 173 times just to equal the environmental impact. It doesn't matter what the actual reuse rate is to establish the comparison, only this: Is it more likely the average person reuses 40% of their plastic bags one time, or is it more likely the average person reuses their cloth bag 173 times? (in other words, groceries 1/week for over 3 years)?

From my own experience, I still use cloth bags from several years ago, and I go shopping 2+ times per week. I don't know what the average usage is though.

Also keep in mind, this study was done in the UK. That 40% reuse number seems a bit high for here. In all my trips to the grocery store I have seen people bring their own plastic bags only a handful of times.

 

[Eug]

Just as I thought Toronto City Council couldn't get any worse, this happens. It's just stupid. I'd say Toronto City Council just seems like a bunch of bickering elementary school students, but that would be an insult to elementary school students.

And did they really spend an entire day debating this?

BTW, I use reusable bags... although I prefer having plastic bags for meat and other types of goods which may leak. However, one thing I've noticed is that most of the bags that they sell in the stores are pretty crappy. They have a fairly short useful life... unless you never wash them, which I think is a health hazard.

 

[nfitz]

Also keep in mind, this study was done in the UK. That 40% reuse number seems a bit high for here. In all my trips to the grocery store I have seen people bring their own plastic bags only a handful of times.

Surely reuse could mean other uses. I reuse mine in the green bin, for cat litter, and for putting dirty cloth diapers in, when out of the house. Now I will have to buy bags for this purpose. I'll have very little savings on plastic use ... at one point, I just couldn't get enough of them, and would go to the store, and get 10 bags for 50¢ instead of just the one I needed for 5¢ ... because I needed them for other things. On another occasion, I brought back about 100 of them from a relative who lived out-of-town and had tons of surplus, good-quality plastic bags they didn't want to throw out.

 

[ttk77]

Surely reuse could mean other uses. I reuse mine in the green bin, for cat litter, and for putting dirty cloth diapers in, when out of the house. Now I will have to buy bags for this purpose. I'll have very little savings on plastic use ... at one point, I just couldn't get enough of them, and would go to the store, and get 10 bags for 50¢ instead of just the one I needed for 5¢ ... because I needed them for other things. On another occasion, I brought back about 100 of them from a relative who lived out-of-town and had tons of surplus, good-quality plastic bags they didn't want to throw out.

I was assuming re-use meant at the grocery store since the study seems to differentiate re-use from using the bags for waste collection.

As a side point, as someone who has to walk a fair distance from the grocery store to my condo, I like the fabric bags more for their resiliency. It didn't happen often, but it was incredibly annoying when a sharp corner from a food container would puncture my plastic bag causing food to spill out over the sidewalk.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

bobbob911:

Obviously, but don't forget what are the chances of someone not just getting one or two bags, but a whole series of them each with one or two items. It adds up rather quickly. Besides, cotton bags are relatively uncommon compared to the synthetics, the source material itself might even be recycled.

Eug:

I use reusable bags... although I prefer having plastic bags for meat and other types of goods which may leak.

I think that's true for a lot of people - but that's why they have those transparent bags.

However, one thing I've noticed is that most of the bags that they sell in the stores are pretty crappy. They have a fairly short useful life... unless you never wash them, which I think is a health hazard.

The health hazard argument is a bit of a stretch - I mean, shouldn't one be washing the fruits and vegetables in any case prior to consumption, instead of washing the bag and hoping it is clean?

AoD

 

[vic]

My family only buys about 10 plastic bags per year. Maybe fewer. This is usually during unplanned shopping trips when I don't have enough bags with me. But that's easily alleviated by getting a paper bag at some outlets (e.g. LCBO).

Even so, we have a ton of plastic bags at home: Bags from bread, vegetables, milk.... We use those, when needed, for garbage, green bin, diapers, etc. We'll probably make more of a conscious effort to cut down on the number of those bags we get too.

During a typical 2-week cycle, we only fill about 1 shopping bag's worth of trash. This can easily go into paper bags, or the other bags we accumulate. Nothing wet or smelly goes into garbage anymore, so using paper isn't a problem. We compost most vegetable matter at home, and additional green bin items often go in the freezer until garbage day.

Plastic bag ban? Hardly any effect on my life. I'm surprised it happened...but good riddance!

 

[Eug]

I think that's true for a lot of people - but that's why they have those transparent bags.

Are they still allowed with the new ban?

The health hazard argument is a bit of a stretch - I mean, shouldn't one be washing the fruits and vegetables in any case prior to consumption, instead of washing the bag and hoping it is clean?

I'd recommend both.

Health Canada: Food Safety Tips for Reusable Grocery Bags and Bins

When you are using cloth bags, make sure to wash them frequently, especially after carrying fresh produce, meat, poultry or fish. Some reusable grocery bags may not be machine washable. If you are using this type of grocery bag, you should make sure to frequently wash them inside out by hand with hot soapy water.

You can also put your meat, poultry or fish in plastic bags, such as the clear bags you can find in the produce and some meat sections. This will help prevent the juices from leaking out and contaminating your reusable bags and bins and also other foods. Fresh produce should also always be placed in plastic bags to help protect them from contamination.

Ironically, the best bags I've picked up so far generally aren't even from grocery stores. They're canvas bags that I've gotten from conventions. The exhibitors put their sales swag in them to take home, and I've repurposed them as grocery bags. But I still put meats and other potentially leaky foods in those transparent plastic bags first.

we have a ton of plastic bags at home: Bags from bread, vegetables, milk.... We use those, when needed, for garbage, green bin, diapers, etc. We'll probably make more of a conscious effort to cut down on the number of those bags we get too.

Hmmm... Much of the bread we get doesn't come in plastic bags, although it sometimes does. The vegetables will have those transparent plastic bags, only if I put them inside those. The milk I get comes in cartons.

So, are the transparent plastic bags banned too?

 

[nfitz]

Even so, we have a ton of plastic bags at home: Bags from bread, vegetables, milk.... We use those, when needed, for garbage, green bin, diapers, etc. We'll probably make more of a conscious effort to cut down on the number of those bags we get too.

I save the milk bags too ... great for sticking my lunch in, and for small things. But it is too small to fit in the green bin. I have used them for diapers, and it's great for one or maybe 2. But if your out for more than a couple of hours, you need greater capacity. Bread bags? I don't find they are good for much at all.

I'm curious how you get the milk bags into the green bin. Though I only go through about one or two 4-L sacs a week, and I probably use about 7 plastic bags a week. Probably closer to 20 once we are back in diapers.

 

[canmark]

It's the people's fault.

Mayor Rob Ford took to talk radio Thursday morning to lambaste council for banning plastic shopping bags — and, unprompted, blamed the city's residents for the unexpected decision.

“It’s the people’s fault,” Ford told NewsTalk 1010’s John Oakley. “Honestly, sometimes I get so frustrated because the people are just sitting back listening. They don’t pick up the phone, they don’t go down to City Hall, they don’t ask questions, they just — it’s frustrating. I want people to get engaged in municipal politics to find out who their councillor is and know how they vote.”

“If there was a couple hundred thousand people down in Nathan Phillips Square saying they want plastic bags back, yes, then the councillors will listen,” Ford said. “But if people don’t, like I said, take action and don’t get in the councillors’ faces, it’s not going to happen. It’s up to the taxpayers. They have to be more engaged and they’re just not. It’s frustrating when stuff like this happens.”

A couple hundred thousand people in Nathan Phillips Square demanding their right to plastic bags? I would like to see that. Revolution!

Apparently plastic bags have been (or will be) banned in Seattle, San Francisco, Los Angeles... and Ft. McMurray. If they can live without plastic bags in the heart of Oil Country, Alberta, then surely we can do so here.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Well, the Czech/Slovaks had their Velvet Revolution...here, we "had" the Plastic Bag Revolution. Charming.

Funny he should blame people's inaction...it got him in power (however little he had, and had left), no?

AoD

 

[ShonTron]

It only gets better:

As he did after council rejected his transit vision, Ford called for the defeat of council opponents: “The campaign’s already started for the next election. We have to get rid of some of these councillors.” And he suggested he might seek changes to the City of Toronto Act to give himself more power.

...

“I only have one vote on council. On issues like this, I think the mayor should have a little more power than one vote. I do represent 3 million people compared to some councillors that represent 60,000. We have to look at changing the act, and then I’d have to see whether I agree with it, because there’s pros and cons,” he said.

His fixation on the next campaign might explain his strange behaviour at the Eaton Centre Tuesday, handing out magnets and business cards.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

and then I’d have to see whether I agree with it

That's the choice bit.

AoD

 

[gabe]

Most of the clothing stores i shop at use paper/cardboard bags. Like the ones at Holt's and Rosen. But i would say the majority of stores i see still use plastic, since it is a lot cheaper, i guess the stores now will just tack on the added cost onto us to pay for these more expensive paper/cardboard bags. I use reusable bags for groceries, and use the paper Holt bags for storage since plastic bags aren't good for storage they could lock in moisture.

 

[Red October]

Funny that Ford says people should know more about the people they're voting for before they vote.. I mean it's ignorance and stupidity among voters that got him elected in the first place. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.