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Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

salsa said:
Personally I'm not gung-ho about either type of highway expansion (extension or widening), as they both feed suburban sprawl and induce more traffic. As for the 401, I know that it's necessary but instead of doubling the size to 12 lanes all the way to Milton, I feel that fewer new lanes in conjunction with GO improvements would have been more reasonable. The province likes to toot their smart growth policies, but some of their road projects seem to undermine that effort.
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Please, you can't put truck traffic on a GO train. Expanding the 401 helps the economy but building a new highway would do more harm than good. 401 is not only a commuter route after all. Reducing congestion on the 401 will lower shipping prices overall. Urban sprawl and traffic can be controlled. A wider greenbelt would be a good start. It's bad urban planning that is causing all the congestion. Even if the GO ran very frequently at a lower fare, it would not help at all if local transit and connecting hubs are not well established.
 
I disagree that expanding the 401 is bad...

It is the only major highway that runs east West across the province really and is a national economic lifeline.

I do not agree with people attitude here is that the only way to get people on transit is to doom to endless traffic backlogs, thats sort of petty.
 
Jasmine18 said:
I disagree that expanding the 401 is bad...

It is the only major highway that runs east West across the province really and is a national economic lifeline.

I do not agree with people attitude here is that the only way to get people on transit is to doom to endless traffic backlogs, thats sort of petty.
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Fully agree with you. The 401 is vital to Ontario economy. We have outgrown the 4 lane configuration. The highway should be at least 6 lanes from Bowmanville to Kingston as that where most of the traffic is. Between Kingston and Montreal, it is not yet too congested, but eventually even there it will have to be widened to 6 lanes.

In addition to that, VIA needs to beef up it's service along the corridor to boost frequency, increase speed and lower costs. More people would take the train rather than drive if it got people there faster, and it was cheaper than driving for a family.
 
lead82 said:
In addition to that, VIA needs to beef up it's service along the corridor to boost frequency, increase speed and lower costs. More people would take the train rather than drive if it got people there faster, and it was cheaper than driving for a family.
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Oh, and a proper high-speed railway link as well; it doesn't have to be run by VIA.
 
lead82 said:
Fully agree with you. The 401 is vital to Ontario economy. We have outgrown the 4 lane configuration. The highway should be at least 6 lanes from Bowmanville to Kingston as that where most of the traffic is. Between Kingston and Montreal, it is not yet too congested, but eventually even there it will have to be widened to 6 lanes.

In addition to that, VIA needs to beef up it's service along the corridor to boost frequency, increase speed and lower costs. More people would take the train rather than drive if it got people there faster, and it was cheaper than driving for a family.
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It's 6 lanes well passed Bowmanville to Cobourg. As we speak an additional 8 km of highway is being 6 laned east of Cobourg. Slowly but surely it is happening.
 
After widening the 401 to Kitchener, the next priorities for the province must be to widen the highway further east towards Belleville and widening the 401 stretch from the 402 to 403 in the London area. The latter is very busy and equally important much of that traffic is transport. The London portion should be the priority over the east as it is a trucking corridor and vital to the Ontario economy and HSR is no where in sight.

The 401 from 402 to 403 will be a very expensive endeavor as it will require a duplication of the entire roadway as it cannot be further widened further due to the inability to widen the current bridges and overpasses. The only alternative they have to doing this is extending the 402 from Strathroy thru northern London suburbs and meet up with the 403 at Woodstock which is where the highway was suppose {and should have gone} in the first place until the wealthy of northern London started using their sizeable political clout to can the route.

This would help take much of the 402 traffic off the overburdened 401 and the 402 to Sarnia is nearly as busy as the 401 London to Windsor route. It would also serve northern Londoners, which is the fastest growing area of the city, who desperately need a fast route to Toronto as well as KWC/Ham/Niagara. The traffic in London is so horrific that it can take 40 minutes + to even get to the 401 so many now take the old HWY#4 route towards Stratford and Kitchener and then get on the Conestoga to reach Toronto in less time.
 
They've started working on the bridges between Woodstock and London. Highway 19/119 is being replaced this summer.
 
The 400 needs a ton of work up to Barrie, the traffic on it is approaching the need for 10 lanes in some spots, but almost the entire thing is going to be hitting 100,000 AADT soon, which is generally the trigger for a widening to 8 lanes. Highway 11 needs work up to Orillia too, its approaching traffic saturation for a 4 lane road (generally around 50,000 cars daily) and it is extra unsafe as its only a RIRO. It needs to be upgraded to a full 6 lane expressway soon.

The 404 is going to need some widening work up towards Newmarket soon as well. MTO is planning to add an HOV lane all the way up to Green Lane in the near future.

The 403 through Hamilton needs a lot of work too. Adding an HOV to Highway 6 and widening it to 6 lanes through to Highway 6N would work. It needs an extra lane through Burlington and Oakville too, but I don't see that coming any time soon.

My understanding is that MTO wants the next big part of the 401 to be widened in Eastern Ontario to be between Trenton and Belleville. Its only around 40,000 AADT, but its pretty old and needs to be rebuilt, so they are planning to do it to 6 lane specifications.

The 401 in London is busy, but far from capacity. It peaks around 68,000 AADT near the 403, but drops to around 50,000 AADT through london. That is barely enough for a regular 6 lane road. You need to be north of 100,000 AADT to get an eigth lane.
 
Most of the 401 402 to 403 stretch is around 60,000 but equally importantly, a huge amount of that traffic is transport. That area of the 401 has several times more transport traffic than the 400 or 401 East...........they aren't even in the same category. This makes the road more congested than the numbers would suggest and more dangerous.

Oxford and Middlesex are both growing at a decent clip and that will further burden the 401 as much of the traffic on that stretch of 401 is actually London commuter. The increased VIA service won't do squat to the 401 and HSR is no where in sight so those numbers will only rise. As I said though the more ideal situation would be to extend the 402 to the 403 via north London from Strathroy so Londoners actually save time by using the 401 and not the old HWY#4. It would also greatly relieve the 401.
 
To add to the above, I am curious if there has ever been any talk of extending the 402 from London to Niagara roughly paralleling HWY#3. That entire part of the province seems to have been ignored in nearly all ways from the province.

The section would offer a transport alternative to Niagara/Buffalo without having to go thru Hamilton or take the 401 to 403. It would serve a lot of communities and commuter traffic to London. London/St.Thomas could be connected to Alymer, Tilsonburg, Simcoe, Delhi, and Welland/Port Colbourne.
 
ssiguy2 said:
To add to the above, I am curious if there has ever been any talk of extending the 402 from London to Niagara roughly paralleling HWY#3. That entire part of the province seems to have been ignored in nearly all ways from the province.

The section would offer a transport alternative to Niagara/Buffalo without having to go thru Hamilton or take the 401 to 403. It would serve a lot of communities and commuter traffic to London. London/St.Thomas could be connected to Alymer, Tilsonburg, Simcoe, Delhi, and Welland/Port Colbourne.
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The Mid Peninsula highway proposal wasn't popular. Twinning or bypassing part of Hwy. 3 would bring more urban sprawl. I don't think AADT is high enough for such project. I don't know how much advantage do we get by opening a new highway for American freight from Michigan to New York state. If we charge them a cheap enough toll that can save them fuel and time while Queen's Park can make some cash, it might be worth it.
 
ssiguy2 said:
The only alternative they have to doing this is extending the 402 from Strathroy thru northern London suburbs and meet up with the 403 at Woodstock which is where the highway was suppose {and should have gone} in the first place until the wealthy of northern London started using their sizeable political clout to can the route.
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If the highway would have run through rural areas north of London, why would people have been bothered by that?
 
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Steve X said:
The Mid Peninsula highway proposal wasn't popular. Twinning or bypassing part of Hwy. 3 would bring more urban sprawl. I don't think AADT is high enough for such project. I don't know how much advantage do we get by opening a new highway for American freight from Michigan to New York state. If we charge them a cheap enough toll that can save them fuel and time while Queen's Park can make some cash, it might be worth it.
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Depends who you ask. The QEW is full for almost the full day on weekends. Its almost like riders on the Yonge subway who can't get on south of Eglinton.
 
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