Roads: How do you get the timing on a traffic light changed?

[hawc]

Time is infinite. There's no reason you couldn't given each direction 1 minute. Just because I have 1 minute doesn't mean you don't also have 1 minute. If you had a minute before and now I now have a minute too, you still have your minute. You don't lose time just because I'm gaining it. Each direction can have as much time as they want. It doesn't take away from another direction's time it just adds time to the overall cycle. We're not in a fixed time frame like a hockey game.

 

[Tuscani01]

Time is infinite. There's no reason you couldn't given each direction 1 minute. Just because I have 1 minute doesn't mean you don't also have 1 minute. If you had a minute before and now I now have a minute too, you still have your minute. You don't lose time just because I'm gaining it. Each direction can have as much time as they want. It doesn't take away from another direction's time it just adds time to the overall cycle. We're not in a fixed time frame like a hockey game.

A minute added at Fort York/Bremner, means a minute worth of cars backed up along Spadina, meaning it will take even longer to clear the backlog on Spadina, and even longer for all of the cross streets, and an even longer commute for those using the streetcar. Until the backup along Fort York gets worse, they wont be changing the timing of the lights, as Spadina traffic gets priority.

 

[hawc]

Fair enough.

What if it was argued though that traffic on Spadina already gets too much priority?

Forget about the traffic light timing for a moment - Spadina's got bigger problems. Spadina has essentially become one huge on ramp from King to the Gardiner - with limited pedestrian crossings and advanced greens at Front and at Bremner that favour moving downtown traffic onto Spadina. Isn't this just encouraging commuting?

It's almost funny how anti-pedestrian Spadina is, despite the thousands of local residents who walk it every day. There is no pedstrian crossing on the south side of Front, and there is no pedestrian crossing on the South side of Bremner. Think about this for a second... we actually have two downtown Toronto intersection where pedestrians can only cross on one side of the street. It's crazy. In both cases, of course to make it easier for the Mississauga/Oakville/Brampton commuting crowd to turn leftbound to get on their highway home.

Spadina has become one long on ramp.

We always talk about how we shouldn't build/widen highways because it just encourages more commuting and thus gridlock... well by logical extension doesn't the same thing happen when we take a street like Spadina and set it up to be totally pro-car?

Try walking south down it any late afternoon and you feel like you're walking beside a big smelly highway in gridlock with everyone honking and jamming intersections and looking angry. And commuters do this every single day after day after day.

Why? Because we make it convient for them.

Perhpas we should turn one lane each way into a separated bike lane so there are only 2 car lanes each way not 3. And install pedestrian crossing on the south side of Front and of Bremner so left turning motorists would have to wait for pedestrians to cross first. Congestion would get so unbearable that a certain number of commuters would say "Forget this!" and start taking the GO Train instead. Right now, however, we're just making it easy for the people who drive through the area at the expense of the people who actually live there.

Maybe we should make Spadina a little less convenient?

 

[TransitPolicyChanger]

Fair enough.

What if it was argued though that traffic on Spadina already gets too much priority?

Forget about the traffic light timing for a moment - Spadina's got bigger problems. Spadina has essentially become one huge on ramp from King to the Gardiner - with limited pedestrian crossings and advanced greens at Front and at Bremner that favour moving downtown traffic onto Spadina. Isn't this just encouraging commuting?

It's almost funny how anti-pedestrian Spadina is, despite the thousands of local residents who walk it every day. There is no pedstrian crossing on the south side of Front, and there is no pedestrian crossing on the South side of Bremner. Think about this for a second... we actually have two downtown Toronto intersection where pedestrians can only cross on one side of the street. It's crazy. In both cases, of course to make it easier for the Mississauga/Oakville/Brampton commuting crowd to turn leftbound to get on their highway home.

Spadina has become one long on ramp.

We always talk about how we shouldn't build/widen highways because it just encourages more commuting and thus gridlock... well by logical extension doesn't the same thing happen when we take a street like Spadina and set it up to be totally pro-car?

Try walking south down it any late afternoon and you feel like you're walking beside a big smelly highway in gridlock with everyone honking and jamming intersections and looking angry. And commuters do this every single day after day after day.

Why? Because we make it convient for them.

Perhpas we should turn one lane each way into a separated bike lane so there are only 2 car lanes each way not 3. And install pedestrian crossing on the south side of Front and of Bremner so left turning motorists would have to wait for pedestrians to cross first. Congestion would get so unbearable that a certain number of commuters would say "Forget this!" and start taking the GO Train instead. Right now, however, we're just making it easy for the people who drive through the area at the expense of the people who actually live there.

Maybe we should make Spadina a little less convenient?

Anyone who takes Spadina to get to the Gardiner knows that "convenient" wouldn't be the exact word. Maybe more along the lines of "no other option". Spreading the load with the now dead Front Street Extension would have helped some what. As I'm sure you know, at Spadina/Bremner traffic doesn't really fly towards the Gardiner, its backed up on Spadina to well before King, and on Bremner past the Skydome as people use Blue Jay Way/Peter as an alternate.

I work at Front and Simcoe, and lets just say when I'm forced to head west on the Gardnier any time between 4 and 7, it generally takes 30 to 60 mins just to get on at Spadina.

 

[Tuscani01]

Fair enough.

What if it was argued though that traffic on Spadina already gets too much priority?

Forget about the traffic light timing for a moment - Spadina's got bigger problems. Spadina has essentially become one huge on ramp from King to the Gardiner - with limited pedestrian crossings and advanced greens at Front and at Bremner that favour moving downtown traffic onto Spadina. Isn't this just encouraging commuting?

It's almost funny how anti-pedestrian Spadina is, despite the thousands of local residents who walk it every day. There is no pedstrian crossing on the south side of Front, and there is no pedestrian crossing on the South side of Bremner. Think about this for a second... we actually have two downtown Toronto intersection where pedestrians can only cross on one side of the street. It's crazy. In both cases, of course to make it easier for the Mississauga/Oakville/Brampton commuting crowd to turn leftbound to get on their highway home.

Spadina has become one long on ramp.

We always talk about how we shouldn't build/widen highways because it just encourages more commuting and thus gridlock... well by logical extension doesn't the same thing happen when we take a street like Spadina and set it up to be totally pro-car?

Try walking south down it any late afternoon and you feel like you're walking beside a big smelly highway in gridlock with everyone honking and jamming intersections and looking angry. And commuters do this every single day after day after day.

Why? Because we make it convient for them.

Perhpas we should turn one lane each way into a separated bike lane so there are only 2 car lanes each way not 3. And install pedestrian crossing on the south side of Front and of Bremner so left turning motorists would have to wait for pedestrians to cross first. Congestion would get so unbearable that a certain number of commuters would say "Forget this!" and start taking the GO Train instead. Right now, however, we're just making it easy for the people who drive through the area at the expense of the people who actually live there.

Maybe we should make Spadina a little less convenient?

We tried getting a crosswalk on the south side of the Bremner/Spadina intersection, but traffic services rejected the idea due to the traffic issues with Spadina. Adam Vaughan has proposed a bike lane along Spadina, but it would be on the sidewalk.

 

[hawc]

Adam Vaughan has proposed a bike lane along Spadina, but it would be on the sidewalk.

That would make sense since so many cyclists ride on the sidewalk already, espescially as they go over the bridge.

 

[Long Island Mike]

Who do I phone or email?

The light at Fort York Blvd and Spadina needs to be changed so people have more time to exit Fort York Blvd (going Eastbound) onto Spadina. The light is ridiculously short right now. About 10 seconds or 3 cars. Cars are constantly exiting on red lights as they get so frustrated.

Love to know who I should be asking for a long light.

Hawc: Interesting topic...in my area here on LI there are two traffic lights in my area with left turn signals that were very short in duration...the trouble is that these also had red light cameras
and after many motorists were getting tickets repeatedly complaints were made to the NYS DOT which administers these intersections and the timing was lengthened and more RED LIGHT CAMERA ENFORCED
warning signs placed...and the change has worked out for the better as far as I know...

I want to ask since I do not know does the City of Toronto or the Province of Ontario have jurisdiction over red-light cameras at intersections where they are placed depending on the highway route in question?
How common are red light cameras in Toronto or for that manner notorious problem intersections that have red light running problems?

LI MIKE

 

[lead82]

I have an idea on how to fix this mess. Why not build a ramp onto the Gardiner from the end of Front street. From Bathurst over the railway onto Front. It would be a mini Front street extension but shorter. It would allow the Front Street traffic to continue heading west and join Gardiner while bypassing the bottleneck at Spadina. Similarly, on the way back, people should be able to get off at Bathurst and Front. That will give them options to continue going along Bathurst or heading along Front, or exiting at Spadina.

Thoughts?

 

[hawc]

Why not build a ramp onto the Gardiner from Front & Bathurst. Thoughts?

Your on ramp would cross right over Fort York.

 

[EnviroTO]

Time is infinite. There's no reason you couldn't given each direction 1 minute. Just because I have 1 minute doesn't mean you don't also have 1 minute. If you had a minute before and now I now have a minute too, you still have your minute. You don't lose time just because I'm gaining it. Each direction can have as much time as they want. It doesn't take away from another direction's time it just adds time to the overall cycle. We're not in a fixed time frame like a hockey game.

If someone has a green on Fort York then someone is waiting on Spadina and vice-versa. Yes, time is infinite and currently an infinite time is assigned to Fort York. Is an infinite time not enough? So demanding

The reality is that the time we live in is not infinite. People commute for X number of minutes each day. The fact time goes on forever is irrelevant because people don't want to wait forever which is exactly why you made this post in the first place. If a red light took only 1 minute before on Spadina, if you give an additional minute to Fort York the red will be 2 minutes, and it won't be 2 minutes once, it will be two minutes every cycle. Of course this means time taken from Spadina. When the light is red 2 minutes twice as many cars will get caught behind it than if it was one minute. It lowers the carrying capacity of Spadina. Until the city studies the traffic it can't adjust the light. The issue at that intersection is that rush hour / game night surges create massive amounts of cars both on Bremner and Spadina whereas Fort York will rarely get nuts. Any time given to Fort York improves the flow of traffic for one lane of cars and a longer red on Spadina impacts 3 lanes of cars. With it being one of the main access points to the Gardiner they can't give much time to Fort York without creating a bottleneck that spreads down Front and down Spadina, eventually choking everything as fools stop in the middle of intersections when they can't make it through due to congestion.

 

[hawc]

EnviroTO you're okay in my books.

I agree with everything you said. And you're absolutely right, time isn't infinite because people commute for a certain about of minutes each day.

The only thing I'll add is that the city doesn't need to study the traffic, because I've already studied if for them...

Here are the results of my study:

The thing that messes things up more than anything is that people don't clear the intersections when things get really busy. This happens like you said at rush hour and after big games or sporting events. Everyone gets tired of waiting so when they get close to the intersection they go, "Screw it, I'm getting through this light no matter what! I don't' care if all I manage to do is jam myself into the intersection, I'm not waiting another full cycle!" Then the people going the other direction can't get across and they get furious and honk and when it's their turn they do the same thing, "Well I've missed a whole light because of that last moron so I'm getting through no matter what now!" and then they too get stuck and so on and so on.

Not sure what the best way to deal with this is. Do you paint a big box in the intersection with signs that say do not block intersection? Do you put a cop on the corner that could only pull over 1 in every 10 offenders since there are so many - and when they do pull someone over they will only make the congestion worse? Do you put red light cameras in so that all the regulars that are running the intersection get nice little tickets in their Oakville mailboxes? Not sure...

Anyway, it does get really crazy sometimes, this was a recent shot I took last weekend of the traffic backed up in CityPlace trying to get out (people were losing their minds)...

Sobeys is at the top of the is picture. Spadina is on the right just out of frame.

 

[lead82]

Your on ramp would cross right over Fort York.

Good point, maybe a longer and more gentler curve could maneuver more over the railway and connect with Gardiner further west, passing Fort York to the north and west.

 

[TransitPolicyChanger]

As I noted before, the original plan was to connect with the Gardnier further down, before Dufferin.

http://www.toronto.ca/waterfront/front_extension.htm

 

[Tuscani01]

EnviroTO you're okay in my books.

I agree with everything you said. And you're absolutely right, time isn't infinite because people commute for a certain about of minutes each day.

The only thing I'll add is that the city doesn't need to study the traffic, because I've already studied if for them...

Here are the results of my study:

The thing that messes things up more than anything is that people don't clear the intersections when things get really busy. This happens like you said at rush hour and after big games or sporting events. Everyone gets tired of waiting so when they get close to the intersection they go, "Screw it, I'm getting through this light no matter what! I don't' care if all I manage to do is jam myself into the intersection, I'm not waiting another full cycle!" Then the people going the other direction can't get across and they get furious and honk and when it's their turn they do the same thing, "Well I've missed a whole light because of that last moron so I'm getting through no matter what now!" and then they too get stuck and so on and so on.

Not sure what the best way to deal with this is. Do you paint a big box in the intersection with signs that say do not block intersection? Do you put a cop on the corner that could only pull over 1 in every 10 offenders since there are so many - and when they do pull someone over they will only make the congestion worse? Do you put red light cameras in so that all the regulars that are running the intersection get nice little tickets in their Oakville mailboxes? Not sure...

Anyway, it does get really crazy sometimes, this was a recent shot I took last weekend of the traffic backed up in CityPlace trying to get out (people were losing their minds)...

Sobeys is at the top of the is picture. Spadina is on the right just out of frame.

Hawc,

Was that picture taken after a Jays game? Can you provide me with the time/date it was taken? That is pretty bad, but if it was after an event at the Rogers Centre, it will be difficult to prevent that without having cops direct traffic. On game nights Spadina and Front Street both get extremely backed up, much worse than rush hour. If the light stayed green longer, there would still be nowhere for the traffic to move because all directions are jammed solid, and pedestrians are everywhere.

Once Fort York opens westbound, it should ease things up a lot more since people would be able to take Dan Leckie Way down to Lake Shore.

 

[lister]

The left turn from Lakeshore E on to Fort York Blvd recently changed to six seconds. SIX SECONDS! It's enough to get about three cars through resulting in a long line of cars waiting in the left turn lane. It's been like that for two weeks now. When changes like these are made does anyone actually watch the intersection and see the results? I now use the left turn at Fleet St and Bathurst instead.

I hope to be back working downtown again soon so I can resume walking to work. Commute driving sucks.