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Roads: Gardiner Expressway

I noticed a few queries from the previous pages re: traffic volumes/destinations. These were posted earlier I'm assuming, but as a refresher.

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And I still am uncertain about this, but will the Gardiner's roadway be narrowed with the Hybrid? And if so, by how much?
 

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arcum said:
A wide boulevard wouldn't be perfect either, as to accommodate the traffic the signal timings will probably give a short north/south duration, resulting in 2-stage pedestrian crossings, similar to University Ave.
Click to expand...
Maybe a 4 lanes-wide landscaped median-4 lanes configuration? I think the removal crowd might want a Michigan highway on Lake Shore.
 
arcum said:
You are missing a few things. Take this example:
A dump truck coming from the east end of the city needs to go to a Bathurst/Dundas construction site. Right now they would take the DVP down to the Gardiner and get off at Spadina. With the Gardiner out, the boulevard is no longer the fastest route, so now they might get off at Bloor or Richmond and tear through downtown in the middle of the night.

As for the pedestrian argument, the remove option won't get rid of the similarly nasty Lake Shore crossings at Spadina/Bay, etc. under the Gardiner.

A wide boulevard wouldn't be perfect either, as to accommodate the traffic the signal timings will probably give a short north/south duration, resulting in 2-stage pedestrian crossings, similar to University Ave.
Click to expand...

Why isn't the Boulevard the fastest route? How is it the dump truck will be slower in the middle of night on an 8-lane boulevard?

How long until this point reaches home, it will be replaced by an 8-lane boulevard. There will be 4 empty lanes each direction for the truck driver to choose at night time.

We are removing the Gardiner east of Jarvis, not on Spadina/Bay.
 
Everyone in my cohort with kids has moved out of the downtown core, bought a house and a car, and use that car when visiting each other - or even going downtown - unless the destination is really nearby because it's easier, faster and usually cheaper than transit.
Click to expand...

That's not my experience. We (my wife and two kids) live at King and Church and we love it. And considering the other 20 kids under 10 in our building I'd say we are not the only ones. The Gardiner should come down!
 
11th said:
Aren't they going to reduce it to two lanes each way?
Click to expand...

I was assuming there's to be a lane reduction. But I'm more talking about an actual reduction in the size of the structure. In the earlier studies, the "Improve" option showed the road deck minimized. But is that idea still on the table as part of the Hybrid?
 
44 North said:
I noticed a few queries from the previous pages re: traffic volumes/destinations. These were posted earlier I'm assuming, but as a refresher.


And I still am uncertain about this, but will the Gardiner's roadway be narrowed with the Hybrid? And if so, by how much?
Click to expand...

Good graphs.

I really do not think that total daily users is the right stat to analyze though. We should be looking at peak-hour usage.

IIRC the Hybrid option is proposing reducing the Gardiner between Jarvis and the DVP from 8 lanes to 4 lanes.
 
11th said:
That's quite a dangerous ground to tread on. Obviously everyone has their own self-interest whether they are for removal or hybrid.
Click to expand...

Why is that 'dangerous ground to tread on'? How is my advocating for the Boulevard solution on rational grounds in my self-interest? As you've pointed out before, I currently live in Barbados. With the exception of probably moving back to Toronto soon, and paying higher property taxes with less to show for it in the way of transit due to Tory and the Council's transit and road infrastructure choices, I have little to no self-interest. I do care about Toronto, though, and I have seen how fabulous the Waterfront can be when WT is given a chance to do the things it was mandated to do. So I advocate for less costly, higher value, more aesthetically pleasing designs to make Toronto a better place.

You, on the other hand, are extrapolating from your own experience that it will be more difficult for people to drive across the city to see their family and friends. You don't seem to have any other argument for keeping the current status quo. How else am I to take your statements?
 
WislaHD said:
Why isn't the Boulevard the fastest route? How is it the dump truck will be slower in the middle of night on an 8-lane boulevard?

How long until this point reaches home, it will be replaced by an 8-lane boulevard. There will be 4 empty lanes each direction for the truck driver to choose at night time.

We are removing the Gardiner east of Jarvis, not on Spadina/Bay.
Click to expand...

I thought I explained this, but going that far south is a lot of extra distance, but still quicker when you can go 100+km/h on the Gardiner. With it removed, Lake Shore would no longer be the fastest route as you'd be going just as fast on Bloor as on the Boulevard (both roads will be practically deserted at night).

It's just a hypothetical example, but shows that even with the boulevard in place, it doesn't necessarily mean that vehicles won't detour onto other local roads in search of a quicker route.
 
arcum said:
I thought I explained this, but going that far south is a lot of extra distance, but still quicker when you can go 100+km/h on the Gardiner. With it removed, Lake Shore would no longer be the fastest route as you'd be going just as fast on Bloor as on the Boulevard (both roads will be practically deserted at night).

It's just a hypothetical example, but shows that even with the boulevard in place, it doesn't necessarily mean that vehicles won't detour onto other local roads in search of a quicker route.
Click to expand...

There are far more stop lights on Bloor than that small stretch of the Boulevard.

AoD
 
arcum said:
I thought I explained this, but going that far south is a lot of extra distance, but still quicker when you can go 100+km/h on the Gardiner. With it removed, Lake Shore would no longer be the fastest route as you'd be going just as fast on Bloor as on the Boulevard (both roads will be practically deserted at night).

It's just a hypothetical example, but shows that even with the boulevard in place, it doesn't necessarily mean that vehicles won't detour onto other local roads in search of a quicker route.
Click to expand...

As someone who has lived on Bloor for well over a decade, I can tell you that it is almost never faster to take the Gardiner to get the DVP.
 
arcum said:
You are missing a few things. Take this example:
A dump truck coming from the east end of the city needs to go to a Bathurst/Dundas construction site. Right now they would take the DVP down to the Gardiner and get off at Spadina. With the Gardiner out, the boulevard is no longer the fastest route, so now they might get off at Bloor or Richmond and tear through downtown in the middle of the night.

As for the pedestrian argument, the remove option won't get rid of the similarly nasty Lake Shore crossings at Spadina/Bay, etc. under the Gardiner.

A wide boulevard wouldn't be perfect either, as to accommodate the traffic the signal timings will probably give a short north/south duration, resulting in 2-stage pedestrian crossings, similar to University Ave.
Click to expand...

You're assuming that the Boulevard wouldn't still be the fastest any more. In the off peak, the boulevard will make a difference of only a few seconds. Besides, even in you example you add the dump truck to some local streets but remove it from others.

Yes, it's true, the remove option doesn't improve things for pedestrians in places which have absolutely nothing to do with the current issue being discussed. It also doesn't get rid of nasty intersections in Ottawa or Thunder Bay.

No one is claiming that the boulevard would be perfect, so don't straw man. The point is that it would be an improvement. Besides, some of the crossings under the Gardiner are two-stage crossings already.
 
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