Referendum on Transit City needed

[GraphicMatt]

There are far more foolhardy goals than bringing transit to priority neighbourhoods, though obviously transit isn't magic and must be coupled with other targeted programs to reduce poverty, improve education, etc.

 

[nfitz]

The density argument is rediculous, if that's the case, Eglinton East LRT should be cancelled - there is pretty much NOTHING between Laird to Birchmount/kennedy.

There's nothing on Eglinton east of Laird to Kennedy?

Are you kidding me? Eglinton East from Don Mills to Wynford is one the densest areas outside the old City. Look at the density map above. Think of all those tall office buildings and residential towers! Do you live in Toronto?

It certainly gets a bit quiet through the Golden Mile east of Victoria Park to Birchmount but after that 2 km section it's moderately dense all the way to Kingston Road!

 

[SimonP]

Looking at the density map, a strong case could be made that the Flemingdon-Thorncliffe area along Eglinton East is the single part of the city most in need of higher order transit.

 

[CN Tower]

I’ve listened to Rob Ford on CFRB this morning (Dec. 3rd), and he continues to call the vehicles for Transit City: streetcars. This man seems to call any vehicle using an overhead catenary a streetcar. I wonder if he would call any of the bullet trains, or the electrification of GO, streetcars. I also wonder if they had used a third rail for the light rail vehicles on the SRT, would he still object? Probably.


Rob Ford is no transit expert, not even a regular transit user. In fact, he seems to avoid public transit as much as possible. I do not want him to make any decisions on public transit. Where did he get this phobia for streetcars, light rail, and catenary?

You may not want him making decisions, and I respect that, but he is the mayor of Toronto now so I think he has quite a bit of say on the matter.

The issue for Rob is really surface vs. subsurface I believe. He doesn't want to crowd the street with new transit vehicles. I can't say that I disagree with that idea. I would love to see underground transit get built out at a slower pace than crowd the streets with light right. Rather 1 subway stop ever 3 years or whatever the equivalent.

 

[GenerationW]

Oh come on ... the election wasn't over Transit City. That was a side issue. And the two other leading candidates both fully supported the Eglinton, Sheppard East, and Finch LRTs. The only funded line that both other candidates didn't support was the fully-grade separated SRT extension, where no digging is expected for another 5 years.

I disagree. Unlike 2006, when it only rarely made an appearance, transportation ranked second in most polls to the budget/taxes. Wikipedia went one step further...

Several issues emerged early in the campaign. Transportation was the most important with debates over cycling and public transit.......The debate over public transit focused on Mayor Miller's Transit City initiative.

 

[ssiguy2]

Whether you support TC or not the reality is that it's dead..................completely dead.
There will never be a referendum or even a city wide poll.
Ford won the election and {unlike Smitherman} was clear on where he stood on TC. He hated the idea and said that if he got elected he would cancel the whole damn thing. No one can say he wasn't clear on his position. Well he won and he is keeping that promise whether you agree with TC or not.
TC is 6 feet under and it will never return. It's about time the TC supporters accepted that and moved on.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Whether you support TC or not the reality is that it's dead..................completely dead.
There will never be a referendum or even a city wide poll.
Ford won the election and {unlike Smitherman} was clear on where he stood on TC. He hated the idea and said that if he got elected he would cancel the whole damn thing. No one can say he wasn't clear on his position. Well he won and he is keeping that promise whether you agree with TC or not.
TC is 6 feet under and it will never return. It's about time the TC supporters accepted that and moved on.

It was a shady plan anyways..shoved down our throats by the province..no love loss.

 

[Tewder]

The issue for Rob is really surface vs. subsurface I believe. He doesn't want to crowd the street with new transit vehicles. I can't say that I disagree with that idea. I would love to see underground transit get built out at a slower pace than crowd the streets with light right. Rather 1 subway stop ever 3 years or whatever the equivalent.

I agree with this.

It is unfortunate that this climate of rampant political polarization is forcing the anti-Ford crowd into the pro-TC camp. How many times does this group need to keep losing over the next four years? Toronto needs a framework of subways to effectively meet its needs now and in the future, regardless of where they are needed or in what order. TC-type solutions will fill in the rest of the system nicely. It is ridiculous to put the cart before the horse, however, and we must get started on the bigger, long term plan first. On this score Ford makes sense, at the very least, if you can force yourself to overlook the clumsy offensive posturing and the rest of his addled platform.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Toronto needs a framework of subways to effectively meet its needs now and in the future, regardless of where they are needed or in what order.

That's putting the cart before the horse. We don't need to start yet another long term plan - how many transit plans have we had in the past 30 years that went nowhere? The needs are generally well established, and so are the rough alignments - we need to prioritize on the basis of need, not political expediency and start building instead of getting stuck in this modal debate (and that's coming from someone who isn't even a big supporter of TC)

AoD

 

[Tewder]

I don't disagree... and if Ford gets this started then the four years wont completely have been wasted.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Except that he isn't putting resources where the need is the greatest - as we have already established in the other threads. He is choosing on the basis of political expediency and that's not the mark of someone with vision and rationality. In fact that's business as usual - as per where transit monies were invested in the last few decades (Sheppard? Vaughan over DRL, Eglinton?) Toronto deserve better.

AoD

 

[Tewder]

... I never once said he has 'vision and rationality'

Toronto seems to have a tradition of basing transit plans on political expediency so I guess this is just more of the same. Too bad. Maybe the Doug behind the throne might understand that building the needed subways first might score more points and establish a legacy that may prove something other than completely risible? One can only hope.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Even if you hate 90% of Transit City you're still better to support maintaining it - even just the 10% you do like - than a "let's go back to the drawing board!" move. Salvaging the good is better than hoping for better.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Not necessarily. Certain elements of TC (e.g. Eglinton) are quite worthwhile and only requires minor tweaks (using Richview corridor, etc); others (e.g. DRL, BD extension to STC) are entirely absent and should be priorities; yet others (e.g. Malvern) are complete headscratchers. No one size fit all, please. And certainly NOT drawing two lines where votes are to be gotten and call it a day and use that as a basis for transit funding allocation.

AoD

 

[MisterF]

Whether you support TC or not the reality is that it's dead..................completely dead.
There will never be a referendum or even a city wide poll.
Ford won the election and {unlike Smitherman} was clear on where he stood on TC. He hated the idea and said that if he got elected he would cancel the whole damn thing. No one can say he wasn't clear on his position. Well he won and he is keeping that promise whether you agree with TC or not.
TC is 6 feet under and it will never return. It's about time the TC supporters accepted that and moved on.

Ford isn't dictator of Toronto. What he says goes only if he gets support from Council. If Council votes to keep Transit City alive, it's still alive. I don't see any scenario where at least some of Transit City doesn't go ahead, like the Eglinton line.