Re-routing rail away from Don River -- what can be done to open up Don River Valley Park?

[ponyboy]

Sorry I couldn't find any discussion about this. I am not a rail expert, but know there are many on this forum.

I just learned about an interesting and bold scheme to transform the entire Don Valley into a contiguous park, requiring consolidating two rail lines into one, opening the Don river by turning the rail line between Bayview and the river into a bike path. I'm not certain, but I believe that the rail line along the river from Brickworks north to Lawrence will be moved to the rail corridor that goes through Thorncliffe park. Is there capacity on those tracks? South of Brickworks, the rail line would be shoehorned in on the east side of the river, opening up the banks on the west side of the river. Can this be done? Looking on google earth, it looks quite tight. It will be a tight squeeze south of Gerrard, and a couple of lanes of the DVP will have to be shifted east to accommodate the expanded rail line, and overpasses extended, but I guess it can be done apparently.

The plan would also simplify the Bloor exits from the DVP and remove a city depot to open up the space. Bike lanes on Bayview and Rosedale valley road will be installed. It is a pretty amazing scheme, and it would be great to see such a bold plan put into action, assuming that issues of congestion and access are addressed with the plan.

The proposal is being discussed on Thursday night at the Brickworks.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ley-waiting-to-be-discovered/article29648565/

 

[minilude]

no rail expert because that's the only thing google map does not mark, but I'm very interested to know what "two rail corridors, both controlled by Metrolinx" is. I know one of them must be the Richmond Hill GO.

 

[Northern Light]

no rail expert because that's the only thing google map does not mark, but I'm very interested to know what "two rail corridors, both controlled by Metrolinx" is. I know one of them must be the Richmond Hill GO.

Metrolinx owns both the Bala sub (south of Doncaster) (the Richmond Hill GO line, south of highway 407, roughly); and the Belleville sub, which is the old CP corridor that crosses the river just north of Gerrard and runs parallel to the DVP for a short distance, before crossing Bayview to join the CP mainline.

 

[drum118]

no rail expert because that's the only thing google map does not mark, but I'm very interested to know what "two rail corridors, both controlled by Metrolinx" is. I know one of them must be the Richmond Hill GO.

The other is the old CP line on the east side of the Don

Where would you take a major backbone RR line going north that exist today, when there is no land for a new one???

 

[ksun]

Sounds intriguing. It is sad how we utilize our natural landscape as if it is a garbage dump.

How about rerouting the fugly DVP eastward to Woodbine Ave too? We have a Don River, but hardly anyone has ever seen the river. Then look at the Chicago river and any river in any large city. It is amazing that highways destroy both our waterfront AND the ravine/river.

 

[Northern Light]

Sorry I couldn't find any discussion about this. I am not a rail expert, but know there are many on this forum.

I just learned about an interesting and bold scheme to transform the entire Don Valley into a contiguous park, requiring consolidating two rail lines into one, opening the Don river by turning the rail line between Bayview and the river into a bike path. I'm not certain, but I believe that the rail line along the river from Brickworks north to Lawrence will be moved to the rail corridor that goes through Thorncliffe park. Is there capacity on those tracks? South of Brickworks, the rail line would be shoehorned in on the east side of the river, opening up the banks on the west side of the river. Can this be done? Looking on google earth, it looks quite tight. It will be a tight squeeze south of Gerrard, and a couple of lanes of the DVP will have to be shifted east to accommodate the expanded rail line, and overpasses extended, but I guess it can be done apparently.

The plan would also simplify the Bloor exits from the DVP and remove a city depot to open up the space. Bike lanes on Bayview and Rosedale valley road will be installed. It is a pretty amazing scheme, and it would be great to see such a bold plan put into action, assuming that issues of congestion and access are addressed with the plan.

The proposal is being discussed on Thursday night at the Brickworks.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ley-waiting-to-be-discovered/article29648565/

The portion of their proposal that seems clear is one to abandon the current Bala sub (GO Richmond Hill) between the junction w/Belleville sub in the south, and somewhere near the 1/2 mile bridge
in the north.

Beyond that, it isn't yet clear to me what they are thinking, and what has or has not been costed out.

The options at the north end, would include running up to the CP mainline, then along to the old CN spur connecting to Bala through the Don Mills area. (currently converted to a bike path).

I imagine this would be politically challenging, would likely require grade separation at Lawrence Avenue; and there would be lots of potential conflicts were the CP mainline set to remain as such.

Though separate conversation are under way about shifting CP traffic north.

That, however is contingent a on a great deal of spending, corporate and governmental deal-making and is some time off, at best.

The other northern option would be to route off north at 1/2 mile bridge and back down to the Bala sub, while likely staying on a bridge until across Pottery Road.

I think this is the more likely scenario, but we shall see.

****

On the south end, Belleville sub does not go under Gerrard (on the east side), it moves back to the west.

I can't visualize any means to keep it on the east side, particularly given flooding issues.

So I'm not sure what options they are contemplating.

This could be one very expensive project.

 

[minilude]

I've long be advoated

The other is the old CP line on the east side of the Don

Where would you take a major backbone RR line going north that exist today, when there is no land for a new one???

Underground? together with the DRL tunnel

 

[ponyboy]

The options at the north end, would include running up to the CP mainline, then along to the old CN spur connecting to Bala through the Don Mills area. (currently converted to a bike path).

Rather than having to reclaim the "Leiside Spur trail" for rail use, would it be possible to curve north to merge with the other line where it crosses the DVP here: https://goo.gl/maps/RMR9PFP9KEv

Maybe that is what you are saying when you said "The other northern option would be to route off north at 1/2 mile bridge and back down to the Bala sub, while likely staying on a bridge until across Pottery Road.", but I don't know the locations of these different lines and bridges.

On the southern portion, new tracks would hug the DVP south of this point: https://goo.gl/maps/Xboyw1mRup82

South of this point: https://goo.gl/maps/qbeKDBunVT82 , the DVP would need to be shifted east by creating 2-3 new lanes, allowing for the new rail to be laid on the east side of the river
The construction staging would first have the new lanes built, then the highway shifted to allow for the new rail to be put in.

I don't know if this is part of the plan, but I've been looking closely at the renders and trying to piece together what it is.

the following map is vegeta_skyline's from post #4920 at http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/threads/go-transit-service-thread-including-extensions.4952/page-328, and the renders below are from the article in the original post.

 

[DSC]

no rail expert because that's only thing google map does not mark, but I'm very interested to know what "two rail corridors, both controlled by Metrolinx" is. I know one of them must be the Richmond Hill GO.

Yes, one is the Richmond Hill line, the other (immediately west of the DVP) is unused and goes over the Brickworks on the high rail bridge and through Thorncliffe Park. Metrolinx bought the latter a couple of years ago and they have owned the Richmond Hill line north of the Union Station rail Corridor since 2012.

 

[lead82]

The best solution is to end the Richmond Hill line at Eglinton and connect it with the DRL. That way Richmond Hill riders can transfer there to head downtown or to go across town. We would free up the ravine for a huge park.

 

[Northern Light]

The best solution is to end the Richmond Hill line at Eglinton and connect it with the DRL. That way Richmond Hill riders can transfer there to head downtown or to go across town. We would free up the ravine for a huge park.

Give or take the Bayview Extension and the Don Valley Parkway!

***

This rail corridor is not going away. The only question is modifying it for size/location.

***

But as long as we can spend unlimited dollars to get rid of stuff, I'd like to remove the DVP south of the 401, and replace it with an extended Woodbine Avenue, which mostly skirts the edge of the valley.

Then remove Bayview south of the CP mainline, and replace it with the original Pottery Rd. and a driveway to the Brickworks.

Then remove Rosedale Valley Road and daylight the creek running underneath.

(not snark, LOL, just a wishlist)

 

[minilude]

From the rendering I see it's actually a good idea to showcase our RR in a park. If both railways are owned by Metrolinx they should at least demolish one and use the more direct route. The current Richmond Hill GO is too circuitous. I think the unused "old CP line" is more direct. Where is the flooding portion though? How will this park proposal deal with the flooding issue?

 

[ponyboy]

The best solution is to end the Richmond Hill line at Eglinton and connect it with the DRL. That way Richmond Hill riders can transfer there to head downtown or to go across town. We would free up the ravine for a huge park.

lead82's idea is intriguing. If these are all public assets, I don't see why one public asset (rail lines in the Don valley south of Eglinton) cannot be sacrificed for boosting another public asset (Don River Valley Park), but I do realize that turf wars often prevent these kind of tradeoffs across fiefdoms/solos of public service departments. Perhaps NL is just a realist, but the idea of ending the Richmond Hill Go line at Eglinton with a multimodal subway-DRL and LRT-Crosstown station right there seems sound to me. High level leadership (mayor, prime minister, premier arm and arm) and money are needed to do such a thing.

Another alternative -- Using the Belleville Sub, could this Richmond Hill line be routed to stop at both the DRL at Eglinton and also continue southwest to terminate at a Summerhill Station at Yonge? This would direct the line away from the Don river, and provide access to two subway lines and the Eglinton crosstown. I think that Richmond Hill Go riders could live with not ending at Union station given all of these options.

However, the more I think about it, what you suggest may be best -- the Richmond Hill Go can end at Aga Kahn Park/Museum (A big station that connects Eglinton Crosstown, the DRL and GO), and then the DRL heading southwest from there could have stops at Flemington/Science Centre, Thorncliffe/EastYork Town Centre, Cosburn/Pape, Danforth/Pape, etc...The DVP southbound on-ramp from Eglinton would need to be modified to accommodate the GO trains ending there. Compared to the Scarborough extension, this scheme is a much better use of public dollars because it provides subway access to population centres (EastYork Centre, Flemington), and major institutions (Aga Kahn and Science Centre), and multi-modal transit connectivity (LRT-Eglinton, Rail, and subway-DRL) away from Union station. The Eglinton/DVP area could become a high-density cluster with these investments.

 

[salsa]

Re-naturalizing the Don Valley isn't the only reason to remove or reroute the RH line. There's also the summer flooding that's been happening with increasing frequency in recent years whenever there's a heavy rainstorm.

 

[drum118]

Under my DRL plan, the RH line would interline with it as the tunnel would support EMU DD trains up to 12 cars long. The tunnel would be 3 tracks to allow express service.

The DRL could interline with trains from the west also.

All stations south of the RH interline point would have stations to handle 12 car trains and 10 cars north of the interline point.

You just remove GO trains, now what do you do for the one daily CN train southbound on the line around noon, give or take a few hours???