Racism in Toronto Workforce

[Dichotomy]

You are no more Canadian than a person who has become a citizen that was not born here.

More's the pity: as a single passport owner, my allegiance is foremost and ONLY to this country.
I read about a Cuban expatriate who has lived here for 30 years and can't wait for Castro to die so he can go back to his 'homeland.'
That made me sick. Here is a Canadian of convenience, who after 30 years is still pining to go home. WTF?
No wonder this country is so fractured.

 

[Dichotomy]

Why is he wrong?

I'd even go as far as to say someone who consciously came to Canada to become a naturalized citizen is probably more of a "Canadian" then someone who just happened to be born here by accident of birth.

Well, I'd say the disapora of 'Canadians' from Beirut in 2006 would lay to rest that claim. I'd love to see the true numbers for External Affairs and how much money it spends every year rescuing 'Canadians' from hot zones where they have no business being. Add that to the balance sheet of immigration profit/loss in this country.

Are we even from the same planet?

The first guy I dated was Pilipino (30 years ago) and I sat at a table with him and 10 or so of his 'countrymen' while they trashed Canada for an hour. Even at 17, I had the balls to demand why the hell they came here then.

There are lots of hard-working new-Canadians, to be sure. We certainly see them on the front cover of the Toronto Star. But even a casual glimpse through many of the shanty towns cropping up all over Toronto will clearly illustrate (for those who have eyes and ears) that there are a dozen Canadas beginning to coallesce in this city alone. There are many, many 'Canadians' of convience, who only want our passport and health care when it suits them.
The UK, France and Australia are all revisiting their immigration policies and examining them. IMO, it's too late for most of Europe. Pray that we don't follow suit.

 

[Mot]

More's the pity: as a single passport owner, my allegiance is foremost and ONLY to this country.
I read about a Cuban expatriate who has lived here for 30 years and can't wait for Castro to die so he can go back to his 'homeland.'
That made me sick. Here is a Canadian of convenience, who after 30 years is still pining to go home. WTF?
No wonder this country is so fractured.

I happen to know many immigrants including myself who cherish this nation. We are people who are grateful to be here. I am embarrassed to use my US passport and hide it as quickly as I can. I am counting the days (if not minutes) until I can obtain citizenship. All of my immigrant friends feel the same. I guess we just go around in different circles with different kinds of immigrants.

You are no more Canadian than an immigrant who obtains citizenship. I don't know why you feel the need to think you are more Canadian.

 

[BobBob]

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel. -- Samuel Johnson

 

[Mot]

Well, I'd say the disapora of 'Canadians' from Beirut in 2006 would lay to rest that claim. I'd love to see the true numbers for External Affairs and how much money it spends every year rescuing 'Canadians' from hot zones where they have no business being. Add that to the balance sheet of immigration profit/loss in this country.

Are we even from the same planet?

The first guy I dated was Pilipino (30 years ago) and I sat at a table with him and 10 or so of his 'countrymen' while they trashed Canada for an hour. Even at 17, I had the balls to demand why the hell they came here then.

There are lots of hard-working new-Canadians, to be sure. We certainly see them on the front cover of the Toronto Star. But even a casual glimpse through many of the shanty towns cropping up all over Toronto will clearly illustrate (for those who have eyes and ears) that there are a dozen Canadas beginning to coallesce in this city alone. There are many, many 'Canadians' of convience, who only want our passport and health care when it suits them.
The UK, France and Australia are all revisiting their immigration policies and examining them. IMO, it's too late for most of Europe. Pray that we don't follow suit.

You are complaining about Canada (specifically Canada's Immigration Policies) while attacking others for complaining. Just because someone immigrates here does not mean they don't have the right to complain while people born he are allowed the courtesy. I'm working to change Tory policies I don't like. Are you suggesting I am supposed to shut up because I wasn't born here.

 

[theowne]

The first guy I dated was Pilipino (30 years ago) and I sat at a table with him and 10 or so of his 'countrymen' while they trashed Canada for an hour. Even at 17, I had the balls to demand why the hell they came here then.

Nice anecdotal evidence and all, but I don't see what that has to do with the general statement.

Some immigrants are not patriotic, and some natural born citizens are not patriotic.

Some immigrants are patriotic and some natural born citizens are patriotic.

There isn't, however, a "minus one" phenomenon or a ceiling of "Canadian-ness" that can only be achieved if you were born in the country. No matter how much you want to give yourself special status because of noble birthright. If that were true, then I'd say the ceiling for immigrants is higher since they consciously choose to come to Canada whereas natural born citizens are here mostly as an accident of birth.

 

[Dichotomy]

You are complaining about Canada (specifically Canada's Immigration Policies) while attacking others for complaining. Just because someone immigrates here does not mean they don't have the right to complain while people born he are allowed the courtesy. I'm working to change Tory policies I don't like. Are you suggesting I am supposed to shut up because I wasn't born here.

Fortunately for you, you do have the 'right' to voice your opinion in this country; however, forgive those of us whose parents and grand parents sweated and died to build this country so you have that 'right.' Why is it that people throw around the word 'right' when, in fact, the correct choice of word should be 'responsibility?'
You are free to mould this country as you see fit, but if your choices are wrong, you also have the 'freedom' to go back to where you came from and admire the mess from afar. Those of us born here are forced to live by choices that you and I make - we have no choice because we don't have a backup passport hidden in a drawer somewhere - just in case.

 

[Dichotomy]

Nice anecdotal evidence and all, but I don't see what that has to do with the general statement.

Some immigrants are not patriotic, and some natural born citizens are not patriotic.

Some immigrants are patriotic and some natural born citizens are patriotic.

There isn't, however, a "minus one" phenomenon or a ceiling of "Canadian-ness" that can only be achieved if you were born in the country. No matter how much you want to give yourself special status because of noble birthright. If that were true, then I'd say the ceiling for immigrants is higher since they consciously choose to come to Canada whereas natural born citizens are here mostly as an accident of birth.

And therein lies the depth of the problem: while we agonize and debate over 'who' or 'what' it means to be Canadian, the glue that once held this country together is coming undone. Literally. In an effort to appease everyone we end up appeasing no one.

First, we couldn't say it was the anglos that built this country because it might offend the francophones. Then the aborignals had to have their say. Then the Chinese, Japanese and the slaves chime in.

Soon enough it will be just one loud cacaphony where everyone screeches for 'inclusion' and then we will just head down the same path as Belgium, Czhekoslovaki and other 'fractured' countries that couldn't figure out who they were.

 

[theowne]

When in doubt, change the subject.

You know, Dichotomy, maybe you should just move to Finland and be done with it. I don't think Canada is or ever will be, the sort of country that you seek.

 

[theowne]

forgive those of us whose parents and grand parents sweated

Lol. There you go again with the idiotic "birthright" nonsense. Like anyone should pay your opinion any more attention just because, by accident of birth, you happened to have parents born in Canada.

When people are incapable of arguing on their own merits or accomplishments, they resort instead to grabbing the accomplishments of other, far greater people who may be associated with them in some way.

You don't have any right to tell Mot that his opinion is worth less because he was not born in Canada.

By the way, I don't have any "backup" passport and the idea of returning to my "home country" if trouble comes up in Canada is quite silly indeed. Just another thing which shows how very little you know about immigrants or the immigrant communities. You seem to enjoy this idea of being the sad victim in the midst of a tragic situation which doesn't exist.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Dicotomy:

You are free to mould this country as you see fit, but if your choices are wrong, you also have the 'freedom' to go back to where you came from and admire the mess from afar. Those of us born here are forced to live by choices that you and I make - we have no choice because we don't have a backup passport hidden in a drawer somewhere - just in case.

Actually, Canadians have, and do emigrate to greener pastures in pursuit of their own personal interests, and I have no doubt they will do so en masse if the situation in the country was intolerable. Just like everyone else in the world with the means to do so. No offense, but having had the time to get to know you better from your postings, you don't strike me as particularly altruistic - so much so that you would not seek this option if it is available to you under such circumstances. Nothing wrong with that, just human nature.

And by the way, the type of immigrants that Canada particularly wanted (i.e. investor class) are exactly the ones with the means to pick and choose where they go. Why should you be surprised, after the country as a whole having benefited from their cash (and I didn't hear anyone complain about THAT), that Canada would be treated as a country of convenience?

AoD

 

[Dichotomy]

Dicotomy:



Actually, Canadians have, and do emigrate to greener pastures in pursuit of their own personal interests, and I have no doubt they will do so en masse if the situation in the country was intolerable. Just like everyone else in the world with the means to do so. No offense, but having had the time to get to know you better from your postings, you don't strike me as particularly altruistic - so much so that you would not seek this option if it is available to you under such circumstances. Nothing wrong with that, just human nature.

And by the way, the type of immigrants that Canada particularly wanted (i.e. investor class) are exactly the ones with the means to pick and choose where they go. Why should you be surprised, after the country as a whole having benefited from their cash (and I didn't hear anyone complain about THAT), that Canada would be treated as a country of convenience?

AoD

LOL I have joked with my partner that I would love to become a househusband, and move to his condo in downtown Sao Paulo: it's paid for, has a wonderful view, fantastic rooftop pool/BBQ area and lots of students for eye candy (it's located near several colleges).
Still, I guess I'd get tired of the warm weather, year round.

 

[Tdot_one]

Certainly, highly educated recent immigrants are likely to fare worse than their locally-born counterparts, as their work experience and degrees are less relevant and accepted - but, while that practice is arguably an unfair barrier, that has nothing to do with "race" per se. Throughout the article, "race" is often conflated with 'immigrant", though admittedly the author also states that children of "racialized" (I assume "member of a visible minority" is meant here) immigrants also fare worse.

Well said. It's pretty clear that the journalist didn't do a well job analyzing this situation. If s/he did, they'd be introducing the performance of "highly-qualified" racialized Canadians in the job market:

Racial discrimination is a large contributing factor to the poor labour market outcomes of Canada’s racialized workers. Lower incomes, higher unemployment, and precarious work status are prevalent for workers of colour as a whole, and not just recent immigrants. In fact, it is the non-immigrant, racialized population, who are more highly educated than average, which has the most difficulty finding steady employment at decent wages. The fact that Canadian-born workers of colour are doing badly cannot be explained away by reference to lack of Canadian credentials and experience. Link