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Darkstar416
Guest
I'm still confused about one thing...how many trainsets would GO be buying? At first I thought it was just one, but now I'm thinking they may mean all three.
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Antiloop33rpm
Guest
^This is probably in part why they are buying the Talents. If they can improve service on that line by using the Talents and spending a minimal amount on track upgrades then GO does not have to make the Stouffville line replacement/upgrade a priority right now and can worry about other projects first. Basically the longer they can delay replacing and rebuilding the tracks on the Stouffville line, the better. By the time SRT has been replaced GO will probably have little choice but to replace the aging line. Of course by that time the line will have benefited by frequent service and gained enough new riders that the investment that will be required will make a lot more sense.
And of course GO benefits from being able to experiment with smaller train sets and gaining insight that can be applyed to other lines as it continues to expand.
Darkstar: Im assuming it would be all three. One would be rather pointless for GO and its much easier for Ottawa to unload all of the trainsets to a single customer than a number of different customers.
And of course GO benefits from being able to experiment with smaller train sets and gaining insight that can be applyed to other lines as it continues to expand.
Darkstar: Im assuming it would be all three. One would be rather pointless for GO and its much easier for Ottawa to unload all of the trainsets to a single customer than a number of different customers.
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unimaginative2
Guest
They'd have to buy all three to provide even a bare minimum of frequency, especially since a spare is also needed in case of maintenance failures.
The Uxbridge sub obviously already has passing facilities since the train that used to run up to Mount Joy passes all the other GO trains heading south.
Double tracking Stouffville shouldn't be any more difficult than projects like doubling the Lakeshore line from Scarborough station to downtown. Triple tracking shouldn't be necessary since there's minimal freight traffic along the route. That's the reason it's the best choice for the Talents.
It used to be a CN track, but I know they've been discussing abandoning it and selling it to GO, like the Newmarket Sub. Does anyone know if this has happened yet?
The Uxbridge sub obviously already has passing facilities since the train that used to run up to Mount Joy passes all the other GO trains heading south.
Double tracking Stouffville shouldn't be any more difficult than projects like doubling the Lakeshore line from Scarborough station to downtown. Triple tracking shouldn't be necessary since there's minimal freight traffic along the route. That's the reason it's the best choice for the Talents.
It used to be a CN track, but I know they've been discussing abandoning it and selling it to GO, like the Newmarket Sub. Does anyone know if this has happened yet?
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wyliepoon
Guest
MrOttawa...
Aside from the difference in platform height vs. the floor of the train (which I admit would be hard to negotiate) and maybe platform length, I don't see why the train wouldn't fit on the SRT. The SRT runs on standard gauge, not the TTC's gauge, so I guess the trains will fit. As for the turning radii, there are only two places where the turning would be difficult- north of Ellesmere and just before Kennedy Station. GO already has a station at Kennedy, so that eliminates the need for the O-Train to use the TTC platform at Kennedy and to make the sharp turn there. My proposal is to make a link north of Ellesmere station between the Stouffville line and the SRT which would accomodate the O-Train, so that would eliminate the need for the O-Train to use the curving tunnel under the Stouffville line.
Aside from the difference in platform height vs. the floor of the train (which I admit would be hard to negotiate) and maybe platform length, I don't see why the train wouldn't fit on the SRT. The SRT runs on standard gauge, not the TTC's gauge, so I guess the trains will fit. As for the turning radii, there are only two places where the turning would be difficult- north of Ellesmere and just before Kennedy Station. GO already has a station at Kennedy, so that eliminates the need for the O-Train to use the TTC platform at Kennedy and to make the sharp turn there. My proposal is to make a link north of Ellesmere station between the Stouffville line and the SRT which would accomodate the O-Train, so that would eliminate the need for the O-Train to use the curving tunnel under the Stouffville line.
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scarberiankhatru
Guest
"The Uxbridge sub obviously already has passing facilities since the train that used to run up to Mount Joy passes all the other GO trains heading south."
I remember the Mount Joy express going before and after the rush hour trains in the other direction, not in between them...I've never seen passing tracks on the line.
I remember the Mount Joy express going before and after the rush hour trains in the other direction, not in between them...I've never seen passing tracks on the line.
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cdl42
Guest
unimaginative:
"It used to be a CN track, but I know they've been discussing abandoning it and selling it to GO, like the Newmarket Sub. Does anyone know if this has happened yet?"
Yup, won't even have to pay for track time. Part of why this is such a great and obvious idea.
wylie:
"The SRT runs on standard gauge, not the TTC's gauge, so I guess the trains will fit."
There's "track gauge", which is the distance between the tracks, and "loading gauge", which is the allowable height and width of the vehicle. The SRT uses standard track gauge, but a very, very small loading gauge.
"It used to be a CN track, but I know they've been discussing abandoning it and selling it to GO, like the Newmarket Sub. Does anyone know if this has happened yet?"
Yup, won't even have to pay for track time. Part of why this is such a great and obvious idea.
wylie:
"The SRT runs on standard gauge, not the TTC's gauge, so I guess the trains will fit."
There's "track gauge", which is the distance between the tracks, and "loading gauge", which is the allowable height and width of the vehicle. The SRT uses standard track gauge, but a very, very small loading gauge.
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Antiloop33rpm
Guest
Edit: Thanks for that information Cdl. Do you happen to know where is the easiest or most effective resource for finding track ownership? Are there any databases by any federal or provincial governments online for searching for that information or does it still mean a trip to the library?
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drum118
Guest
The O-Train "Will" "Not" fit the SRT system other than been standard gauge.
Nothing will fit the SRT other than another new SRT car like it is today. Anything else will require rebuilding the system. Existing stations platforms are to high and the curves are less than 36’ radius.
What happens to the rest of the line if you turn any part of the existing system into an O-Train operation?
The whole tunnel section will have to be rebuilt 100% just to get a Mark II car on the line let alone putting an LRT on the existing system. BRT will never handle the ridership let alone use the exiting tunnel.
There was report due in June on the SRT and it is still out there. Based on what was said at TTC meeting this week, it may show up within the next 2 months. It will become a election issue.
Nothing will fit the SRT other than another new SRT car like it is today. Anything else will require rebuilding the system. Existing stations platforms are to high and the curves are less than 36’ radius.
What happens to the rest of the line if you turn any part of the existing system into an O-Train operation?
The whole tunnel section will have to be rebuilt 100% just to get a Mark II car on the line let alone putting an LRT on the existing system. BRT will never handle the ridership let alone use the exiting tunnel.
There was report due in June on the SRT and it is still out there. Based on what was said at TTC meeting this week, it may show up within the next 2 months. It will become a election issue.
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cdl42
Guest
"Do you happen to know where is the easiest or most effective resource for finding track ownership? Are there any databases by any federal or provincial governments online for searching for that information or does it still mean a trip to the library?"
If you're talking about Toronto, just ask. I don't know of a good resource; I actually saw a map of ownership recently but can't for the life of me remember where. Nationally, that info is probably contained within the Canadian Trackside Guide. Not sure if you could find that at the library.
If you're talking about Toronto, just ask. I don't know of a good resource; I actually saw a map of ownership recently but can't for the life of me remember where. Nationally, that info is probably contained within the Canadian Trackside Guide. Not sure if you could find that at the library.
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scarberiankhatru
Guest
^ Didn't someone post a map showing ownership of all the GTA rail corridors a while back? I can't find it. Ah, damn your 20 page limit, Ezboard! Damn you to Vaughan!
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GregWTravels
Guest
That was me in p083.ezboard.com/ftoronto...169.topic, which I confusingly titled "ownership of rail lines in Toronto." 
The map is dated 2004, and shows the Stoufville line being owned by GO.
Greg
The map is dated 2004, and shows the Stoufville line being owned by GO.
Greg
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cdl42
Guest
There it is! Thanks, Greg!
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Antiloop33rpm
Guest
Thanks for that link Greg.
One thing I did notice about that map is the section north of Stouffville is shown in orange and shown as 'belonging' to York-Durham Heritage Railway. In fact the section from Stouffville from Uxbridge is owned by GO and YDHR simply leases the line from them and undertakes any track work as well. And with some of the smaller lines (Ontario Southland Railway Inc., Orangeville Brampton Railway, etc) it might also be the case that the principal ownership of these lines lies in the hands of the Ontario Government with the companies simply leasing them. But overall a handy map.
One thing I did notice about that map is the section north of Stouffville is shown in orange and shown as 'belonging' to York-Durham Heritage Railway. In fact the section from Stouffville from Uxbridge is owned by GO and YDHR simply leases the line from them and undertakes any track work as well. And with some of the smaller lines (Ontario Southland Railway Inc., Orangeville Brampton Railway, etc) it might also be the case that the principal ownership of these lines lies in the hands of the Ontario Government with the companies simply leasing them. But overall a handy map.
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unimaginative2
Guest
I believe most of Ontario Southland's tracks are leased from CN. The Orangeville line is owned by the Town of Orangeville.
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Antiloop33rpm
Guest
^Interesting. Is the Orangeville line currently in use by anyone?