PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

[afransen]

I can only say, having some understanding of the impact of the arrangement above on the prices/margins of the new entrants, I will respectfully disagree.

Nothing forced Walmart to use one of the existing players as a wholesale provider when they entered the fresh food business. It is a significant investment to establish a supply chain, and Walmart likely made the correct decision to utilize Sobeys to scale their fresh food business to a sufficient level it made sense to create their own dedicated infrastructure. I don't see how competition (or Walmart) would have been well-served by removing that option from them as it only would have served to make it more difficult to enter the market.

 

[Richard White]

That said, Walmart has made the first high profile move to pull self checkout entirely from one problematic store in the Ottawa area.

Meanwhile, Loblaws has little its own-store brand locations with those new entry/exit gates.

I will tell you, front-line staff are even less impressed with those than customers. They've created problems.

I noticed the Wal-Mart at STC has reopened several derelict cashier booths now. Most locations have limited the availability of the self-checkouts as well.

When I was at the Walmart at Dufferin Mall yesterday I noticed how they only have one side of the self checkouts open and I presume this is so the staff can keep an eye on them. What they need is the European style self checkouts where you need to scan your receipt before exiting.

As for the entry and exit gates.. I hate them. I have seen staff walk half way across the store to get somewhere.

At the STC Walmart, at the Upper Level Parking Exit, you cannot actually leave your cart after using the self-checkout without first re-entering the store. The cart corral is past the entry gate inside the store while the exit takes you right outside. It is a pain in the ass because you have to walk into the store, then loop back through the self checkout to get out again.

I would not be surprised if they removed the gates in the near future.

 

[Northern Light]

Nothing forced Walmart to use one of the existing players as a wholesale provider when they entered the fresh food business. It is a significant investment to establish a supply chain, and Walmart likely made the correct decision to utilize Sobeys to scale their fresh food business to a sufficient level it made sense to create their own dedicated infrastructure. I don't see how competition (or Walmart) would have been well-served by removing that option from them as it only would have served to make it more difficult to enter the market.

My concern is that there are only 2 national grocery wholesalers and both are tied to the 2 largest grocery retailers in the country.

There is no independent option.

To my understanding, there also weren't two wholesalers willing to do business with Walmart, only 1.

I really can't say more than I have.

 

[wopchop]

Where Target is supposed to be a competitor but is buying its grocery from Sobeys, that strikes me as anti-competitive.

This happens more than you think, in many industries. In manufactured products for new construction - it is very common.
We supply or contract for competitors, and they supply or contract for us - happens a lot.

 

[kEiThZ]

But, there are other things at work.

1) Many suppliers have in fact raised their prices, some for just reasons, others due to gouging and monopoly positioning (see Canadian Dairy Council)

The retail price, all other things being equal, is a percentage mark up over wholesale cost; so if the supplier adds .40c, the retailer may up the end price by .80c.

2) There absolutely has been some margin bloat, you can see that right in the public financials. Its less than people think, but it is there.

3) Shink is up big time (loss due to theft in this case, as opposed to spoilage), that cost is being passed through, and its a bit of a negative feedback loop.

Most of this is not the fault of the grocery chains. It's their suppliers. But Galen Weston makes an easy target so that's what the LPC is doing. It's interesting how they're not going after the actual groups that substantially increased prices on what was supplied to the grocery stores. Take a guess why.

I certainly concur that sector needs tackling as well. Though, curiously, its worth saying, the Telco sector actually provided better value when it operated as a regulated monopoly with strict margin limits, and no costs related to customer churn.

My point was that the telecom sector falls entirely under federal jurisdiction. They control spectrum licenses too. They could cut rates really quickly if they were sincere. Instead, we get grandstanding on grocery stores.

This kind of populist nonsense is deplorable. Whether it comes from the left or the right. It should be called out.

 

[Northern Light]

Why bring up something you can't share at all? This is like a weird attempt to claim authority with no personal experience and data you can't share.

Sigh.

I have provided some info; I am the direct source of that info. No I am not telling you in what capacity I got that info, that's why most of us here operate under pseudonyms.

I think in the course of time, I've built up strong reputation here at UT, including in respect of my knowledge of the grocery retail sector.

If that's not sufficient, that's fine, but not something about which I'm taking complaints.

 

[kEiThZ]

My concern is that there are only 2 national grocery wholesalers and both are tied to the 2 largest grocery retailers in the country.

There is no independent option.

To my understanding, there also weren't two wholesalers willing to do business with Walmart, only 1.

I really can't say more than I have.

There's also only two real national telecom networks. Bell and Telus share a network. It's a big part of why our telecom sector is uncompetitive. I don't see much concern about that. And that's an area the feds have actual power. They don't have nearly as much influence in the grocery sector, without passing a lot more legislation. So pretty ridiculous to be grandstanding on an area where they lack the jurisdiction to effect substantial change while ignoring the area they do have power.

 

[Northern Light]

There's also only two real national telecom networks. Bell and Telus share a network. It's a big part of why our telecom sector is uncompetitive. I don't see much concern about that. And that's an area the feds have actual power. They don't have nearly as much influence in the grocery sector, without passing a lot more legislation. So pretty ridiculous to be grandstanding on an area where they lack the jurisdiction to effect substantial change while ignoring the area they do have power.

I am not defending the Telcos; or the Liberal government.

We don't disagree on anything above.

 

[kEiThZ]

Realistically, I think the Liberals were getting and heeding that advice until polls made them feel like they needed to grandstand. I think at most, squeezing the grocery retailers might lower prices by a couple of percentage points. Their net income margin is pretty low compared to other industries. Perhaps squeezing the entire food supply chain could yield more results (food processors, regulated producers such as dairy etc.) but it seems like a massive lift. Could Canada force Pepsi to divest Frito, etc.?

The part I don't understand is what this grandstanding is supposed to achieve. We're at a point where a lot of people are fed up with words and want action. I don't think they understand that unless people see material impact, they'll be even more upset and see the Liberals as feckless. Grandstanding works when the public gives you benefit of doubt. When that ends, you have to deliver, or every announcement will be seen as cynical manipulation. It either has no effect or simply makes the public more angry.

Telecom is definitely an industry with enormous, outsized profits, and one where prices could come down materially. My parents, until recently, were paying Bell almost $300/month. That's probably not far off their grocery bill.

Telecom prices are something that actually impacts productivity in Canada, while directly impacting cost of living. It's also an area where cutting their profits is easy and not as hurtful elsewhere, since there isn't as much of a supplier base. This should have been something they pushed for during the spectrum auctions. But this government, and the last one, were happy to take in billions in spectrum fees and look the other way on the outsized profitability of Canadian telecom. Effectively a tax on Canadian telecom services, actually hampering productivity and cost of living.

 

[Northern Light]

This headline should be good for Canada-India relations.....

Justin Trudeau reveals possible India link to assassination in Canada, Ottawa expels diplomat

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says there are “credible allegations” that agents of the government of India were behind the June killing of a local Sikh leader in British Columbia.

www.thestar.com

 

[kEiThZ]

This headline should be good for Canada-India relations.....

Justin Trudeau reveals possible India link to assassination in Canada, Ottawa expels diplomat

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says there are “credible allegations” that agents of the government of India were behind the June killing of a local Sikh leader in British Columbia.

www.thestar.com

This is what happens when a G7 country with a large immigrant population thinks national security is an optional frill.

 

[Northern Light]

This is what happens when a G7 country with a large immigrant population thinks national security is an optional frill.

Would you say the same of the UK, where Russia carried out assassinations?

I'm not letting the federal government off the hook here, but things like this have been known to happen in other developed and G7 nations.

 

[Coolibop]

This news certainly makes me look at the mechanical problems of the PMs plane in new light.

 

[kEiThZ]

Would you say the same of the UK, where Russia carried out assassinations?

I'm not letting the federal government off the hook here, but things like this have been known to happen in other developed and G7 nations.

No. But we have a habit of simply not taking these things seriously. And we should have been more careful after this:

Mysterious Death Of Baluch Activist In Canada Blamed On Pakistan's Powerful Army

Pakistan’s notorious intelligence agency has been blamed for the mysterious deaths of two prominent dissidents living in the West in recent months.

www.rferl.org

This kinda reminds me of the Air India bombing where it wasn't seen as a terrorist attack despite numerous Canadian citizens getting murdered. Guess it only counts if white folks get killed.

 

[lenaitch]

No. But we have a habit of simply not taking these things seriously. And we should have been more careful after this:

Mysterious Death Of Baluch Activist In Canada Blamed On Pakistan's Powerful Army

Pakistan’s notorious intelligence agency has been blamed for the mysterious deaths of two prominent dissidents living in the West in recent months.

www.rferl.org

This kinda reminds me of the Air India bombing where it wasn't seen as a terrorist attack despite numerous Canadian citizens getting murdered. Guess it only counts if white folks get killed.

The 'peaceable kingdom' has a long history of burying its head in the sand about foreign actors. 'Everybody likes us - we're nice people' (or, at least, not America).