SimonP
Active Member
Thanks for the fixes. It should make more mention of the Spadina extension, I'll do some more reading to try to find out exactly how it was that Downsview station ended up getting built.
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Network 2011
- Thread starter SimonP
- Start date
reaperexpress
Senior Member
In the Transit Toronto article on Downsview Station, they say that the Spadina-Downsview extension was built to meet up with the westward extension of the Sheppard Line. On the first map in this thread, it says something similar under the second phase of the Sheppard line.
As well, the Network 2011 map seems to show the Spadina line being extended to Finch, so it may be noteworthy that we're now extending the line to and beyond that point.
As well, the Network 2011 map seems to show the Spadina line being extended to Finch, so it may be noteworthy that we're now extending the line to and beyond that point.
SimonP
Active Member
Yes, it seems to have been built because it was the cheapest section of the plan and could serve the dual purpose of a possible York University extension.
On another track, here's another map of transit dreams. This time it's from 1960 envisioning the transportation network in 1980, including three new expressways and a Queen subway:
And the 1965 map, about the same but with the Queen subway removed:
On another track, here's another map of transit dreams. This time it's from 1960 envisioning the transportation network in 1980, including three new expressways and a Queen subway:
And the 1965 map, about the same but with the Queen subway removed:
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Dan416
Senior Member
Interesting to look at all those old maps.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
Don't need to wait 30 years. I wonder that right now. There can't possibly be a huge expense making wheels further apart. It makes no sense that with a large subway network and a large street-car network at TTC gauge that there wouldn't be a benefit to building the Eglinton LRT to the same gauge.
reaperexpress
Senior Member
But the new LRTs have to be interoperable with hypothetical future LRTs in the suburbs, not the real one in the core with 300km of trackage.
Fred.S
Active Member
Even if it's the only LRT built in 30 years, for it's length (assuming Jane to Kennedy), I think it doesn't make it necessary that it be the same technology as other systems in the city. Many other cities operate single subway and LRT lines that or not compatible with others in the same system.
I don't mind a little diversity in the system, so long as you're not cutting off or truncating another technology, such as Sheppard becoming LRT east of Don Mills or BD becoming SRT north-east of Kennedy. Eglinton is a whole new line, and has the potential to be a showcase of the technology in Toronto (though the TTC doesn't inspire a lot of confidence that it will do it right).
On a similar note, if the DRL was built, I'd love for it to be a fully modern system, using driverless, 750v, standard guage trains with platform doors. Something similar to Paris Line 14 or the Dubai metro. Maybe it's not compatible, but a full, seperate line really doesn't need to be.
Electrify
Senior Member
For the record, I think the problem with the Scarborough RT lies in the fact that it appears to be designed to be as unappealing as possible, rather than the trains look different. Granted on heavy snow days things change, but for the other 350 days of the year it is far from a pleasure to ride...
This thread is an example of why I don't think we should cut and run from Transit City, because we've been doing that for the past half century and look where that has got us! Most of these plans all have fairly common themes, but every political change the new administration feels the need to "reinvent the wheel" and we end up with next to nil. How many more decades must we let history repeat itself before we finally learn our lesson?
This thread is an example of why I don't think we should cut and run from Transit City, because we've been doing that for the past half century and look where that has got us! Most of these plans all have fairly common themes, but every political change the new administration feels the need to "reinvent the wheel" and we end up with next to nil. How many more decades must we let history repeat itself before we finally learn our lesson?
kEiThZ
Superstar
The SRT is unique in drawing scorn because it's so damn short. Unique technology for a few clicks and a handful of stops. Eglinton will not be viewed that way at all....even if it's just the currently planned tunnel that gets built.
Electrify
Senior Member
That and lousy transfers (3 stairs at Kennedy from subway to RT, 3 stairs at Scarborough Center from RT to buses), ugly stations, depressing scenery, uncomfortable seating arrangement, stink at Midland station due to the recycling plant, etc...
At least its fast though.
The Mad Navigator
Banned
Problem is, even when Transit City gets amended (and it will), how much longer in delays will it be before we see real progress occuring? 2 years? 3? 4? But, you're bang on with this post because it seemed like plans were being set in motion with construction just around the corner.
Oh boy, I can't wait to see the TTC's amended plan when it's presented at council. :|
kEiThZ
Superstar
Shouldn't that advice apply to Miller too?
The reason we don't have a politically palatable (across the board) plan is because Miller decided that ideology (must redevelop "priority neighbourhoods" with transit) took priority over planning continuity. He didn't just tweak the existing plan. He threw Network 2011 out the window. And then decided that the place to leave his ideological mark was by starting on Sheppard first. Heck, he even ignored the need for a DRL. That's how much he was biased towards LRT.
I see the rise of Rob Ford as a direct result of Miller's perceived over-reach.
In reality, a lot of what Ford is doing is merely returning to previous plans like Network 2011.
Personally, I don't see a way out (in the long term) unless both sides compromise. LRT proponents have to agree that there is room for some incremental subway expansion in the outer 416....particularly along existing subway corridors (BD at both ends, Sheppard at both ends, Yonge North). And subway proponents have to accept that LRT has a role to play in a network. For example, these days I'd actually concede on the surface portion of Eglinton. I can live with Eglinton largely becoming a bit of a secondary line if Sheppard is extended over time.
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SimonP
Active Member
Network 2011 was dead more than a decade before Miller was elected. It was killed when Peterson's Liberals refused to fund it in 1990.
2011 was first proposed in 1985, Transit City came about in 2007. In those 22 years much had changed with the city, and it was clearly time for a new plan.
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What about RTES in 2002? That was still officially the City's TMP until 2007 when Miller threw it out the window.
SimonP
Active Member
RTES was never a full transit plan, and my understanding is that it was never adopted by either city council or the province as such. it was an assessment of whether there should be new subways and if so where they should be. Something to inform a future plan down the line, but not a complete plan itself. The study was also not mandated to look at options beyond subways, such as LRT. While listing what routes should be built if we were to build any, it also found that new subways were not the top priority. Something that did form the basis of later plans.