MPPs vote to continue using Lord's Prayer; would you scrap it or keep it?

[Prometheus The Supremo]

TheStar.com - Ontario - MPPs vote to continue using Lord's Prayer
June 12, 2008
Robert Benzie
Queen's Park Bureau Chief
MPPs from all three parties today banded together today to spare the daily recital of the Lord’s Prayer in the Legislature.

Putting to rest a controversy ignited by Premier Dalton McGuinty four months ago, Liberals, Progressive Conservatives and New Democrats voted unanimously on a compromise today.

Under the new arrangement, the traditional Christian prayer will continue to be read each morning with other prayers rotated daily.

"Is it a perfect result? Perhaps, perhaps not," said Government House Leader Michael Bryant, who was left to broker a solution to the problem caused by McGuinty opening what many critics dubbed a Pandora’s Box.

The motion, passed by a vote of 58-0, read:

"That the Speaker commence each meeting day of the Assembly by reciting the Lord’s Prayer, followed by another prayer, or the presentation of a verse or passage, or call for a moment of silent reflection, or any such other similar activity which, in the opinion of the Speaker, will serve to reflect over time the general demographic composition of this chamber and of the province of Ontario."

Speaker Steve Peters said the Lord’s Prayer would be joined by a daily rotation of eight other prayers from major denominations plus a moment of silence to appease agnostics and atheists.

NDP MPP Peter Kormos (Welland) said the entire debacle was an embarrassment to the Liberal government.

"McGuinty tried to abolish the Lord’s Prayer and the Opposition stopped him," crowed Kormos.

"McGuinty got stopped in his tracks," he said.

For his part, the premier skipped the vote, but his office issued a statement.

"Ontarians have shown once again that with a spirit of cooperation and goodwill, we can resolve anything. And that’s what has been done today," McGuinty said in the release.

"We have come together the Ontario way — recognizing our traditions and heritage while embracing and celebrating our diversity. The Legislature belongs to all of us and now its practices will reflect a modern Ontario that is home to many faiths and creeds, and anticipates a future every bit as open, and compassionate and respectful as the Ontario we have built, together."

Progressive Conservative MPP Garfield Dunlop (Simcoe North), a member of the all-party committee that made the compromise recommendation, said parliamentarians were flooded with complaints from Ontarians who were concerned that the Lord’s Prayer would be scrapped.

More than 20,000 Ontarians wrote letters and emails about the issue with 89 per cent of them opposing the removal of the Lord’s Prayer.

The motion had been set for this morning as a voice vote, but Tory MPP Tim Hudak (Niagara West-Glanbrook) insisted it be held as a recorded vote.

That move was designed to encourage Liberal MPPs, who privately expressed concern about McGuinty’s scheme, to vote against the government.

But in the end, there was no dissent.

The premier stunned members of all three parties on Feb. 13 when he launched a broadside against the tradition.

"It’s time for us to ensure that we have a prayer that better reflects our diversity," McGuinty, who is Roman Catholic, said at the time.

Even his own mother, Elizabeth, chided him for broaching the issue.

“This is not an easy thing for my mother,†the premier said last month.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Speaker Steve Peters said the Lord’s Prayer would be joined by a daily rotation of eight other prayers from major denominations plus a moment of silence to appease agnostics and atheists.

appease? what are we? nazi's? what kind of language is that? imagine they said "we'll continue the prayer to appease the christians".

and no thanks, i don't want my tax dollars going for a moment of silence for my politicians. all those moments of silence add up, and so do too the prayers. instead of praying to invisible deities in the sky and offering "appeasement" to the rationalists by a condescending "moment of silence", i have an idea! why doesn't everybody just get to work and worry about praying on break time? there are more important things to do than pray. people are dieing! the prayers aren't working. lets try something new for once , like doing something realistic!

 

[adma]

Now, if this is among those eight other prayers, uh-oh...

Our Xenu, Who art in Teegeeack, L. Ron be Thy name.

To Kingdom Come Thetans were blown By H-bombs in Hawaii.

Give us this day our daily audit, And remember our trespasses, As we remember those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into free thought, But deliver us from freewheel, For Thine is the mock-up and the Dianetic power forever.

Amen.

 

[Hydrogen]

More than 20,000 Ontarians wrote letters and emails about the issue with 89 per cent of them opposing the removal of the Lord’s Prayer.

Maybe these people should mind their own damn business.

Why should they expect others to pray or follow a prayer because they want it? Too many people who have a belief in a god actually want to play god.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Now, if this is among those eight other prayers, uh-oh...

Our Xenu, Who art in Teegeeack, L. Ron be Thy name.

To Kingdom Come Thetans were blown By H-bombs in Hawaii.

Give us this day our daily audit, And remember our trespasses, As we remember those who trespass against us.

And lead us not into free thought, But deliver us from freewheel, For Thine is the mock-up and the Dianetic power forever.

Amen.

LOL!!!!

Maybe these people should mind their own damn business.

Why should they expect others to pray or follow a prayer because they want it? Too many people who have a belief in a god actually want to play god.

it just shows how vulnerable our society is. ethics need not apply, if enough people want and complain about something, they'll get it, no matter how it effects everyone else.

 

[adma]

 

[ShonTron]

If you want something changed or kept by the McGuinty Government, just start a facebook group or collect peititions among your own kind. As long as it doesn't cost too much money, and doesn't negatively effect any business interest, you're guaranteed to get it. Case in point: Highway of Heroes.

If these people who emailed asking the legislature to rename the 400 Highway to Heaven, they'd do it.

 

[TOinTO]

McGuinty's responses to issues of religion and public institutions have reflected an admirably consistent position of secularism.

- He got rid of faith based arbitration
- He opposed publicly funded religious schools in favour of a single secular system for all.
- He wanted to remove prayer from the legislature.
(I think there are other examples which escape me right now).

Unfortunately, he lacks the courage (and probably the support) to push this last one through, or to tackle the Catholic school problem.

With this vote, the Christian religion is still given an inappropriate, elevated status. The addition of the of the second prayer IS pandering to religious minorities. Removing the prayer would have simply recognized the secular nature and purpose of the legislature.

Now the speaker of the house has to come up with a scoring system to decide which prayers to include and how frequently to include a certain prayer.

When the prayers are recited the MPPs will stare at their feet and try to look respectful. If they were honest they would admit that they consider most of them nonsense, but don't really take it all seriously. It's insincere and disrespectful.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

when they pray to allah, i hope they all face mecca and bow down on carpets. oh how i'd love to see a christian conservative politician do that!

one thing i'm concerned about is that just say for a moment the christian god is the real god, that means i'm gonna have to spend my time in hell with a bunch of ignorant politicians (because they are praying to false idols).

 

[shumoon]

when they pray to allah, i hope they all face mecca and bow down on carpets. oh how i'd love to see a christian conservative politician do that!

Actually, Christian conservatives pray to Allah every day. It's the same god. It's just called Allah in Arabic. Arab Christians call their god Allah.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

Actually, Christian conservatives pray to Allah every day. It's the same god. It's just called Allah in Arabic. Arab Christians call their god Allah.

i know, it's the abrahamic god, the one the created adam and eve who then begat the rest of us which means we're all incestuous.

what i meant was to pray in an islamic style. i want to see christian conservative politicians & even the liberals who supported this bow down on a carpet, face mecca and praise allah.

 

[King of Kensington]

What the *#*8 is wrong with Cheri DiNovo and Peter Kormos? I say that as an NDP voter!

 

[King of Kensington]

Unfortunately, he lacks the courage (and probably the support) to push this last one through, or to tackle the Catholic school problem.

NOBODY seems to have the courage to abolish this 19th century idea. Although polls do show majorities of Ontarians would support one system, it seems that a multi-party consensus of sort may be needed because it's like a game of chicken...the first one who veers of the road who calls for cutting off the Catholics will be accused of be anti-Catholic and taking away people's "constitutional rights", etc.

OK the Greens did - but their leader is a nobody.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

NOBODY seems to have the courage to abolish this 19th century idea. Although polls do show majorities of Ontarians would support one system, it seems that a multi-party consensus of sort may be needed because it's like a game of chicken...the first one who veers of the road who calls for cutting off the Catholics will be accused of be anti-Catholic and taking away people's "constitutional rights", etc.

OK the Greens did - but their leader is a nobody.

i just have this awful feeling that in the future, they will fund all religious schools. they will try to right a wrong with more wrongs.

 

[khris]

I have bad feelings about this topic