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Moving beyond "downtown vs. suburbs"

King of Kensington said:
I don't agree. Since downtown is so broadly-defined it doesn't really exist in any meaningful sense?

For example, City Hall is clearly downtown. High Park is not.
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While I would assume everyone would agree City Hall is downtown, believe it or not there are many who would call High Park "downtown". Even Yonge & Eg. I've heard it people say it! They do tend to live in the 905.
 
ehlow said:
You're not alone :). I'm sure a very large percentage of Torontonians would live in Rosedale if price was not an issue.
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I love it! The only suburban living I could stomach any more.

Apart from that, I was also saying that I consider Rosedale to be a suburb of what I affectionately refer to as 'the mess' aka downtown.
 
MTown said:
If you were to take the entirety of the GH and consider it as one city, and given that Toronto's CBD is the centre of it all, then you can start to see how some people would consider anything between the Humber and Victoria Park/Lawrence and the Lake as "downtown".
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I read in the Star years ago that the boundary of the inner city could be said to extend to where the gridded side street pattern gives way to the suburban pattern of crescents and cul-de-sacs. You can almost say the inner city extends practically to the 905 along Yonge St. and Lakeshore using this definition. The Etobicoke Lakeshore certainly fits the description, with on-street storefronts and even streetcars reaching almost right to the Mississauga border.

Along Yonge, even though Yonge itself is more suburban north of Finch, the side streets are on a grid pattern right to Steeles and for a small area on the east side, even north of Steeles for a few blocks. There are even storefronts north of Steeles, but oddly, not on the Toronto side; until of course you reach Finch. I've always wondered why those stores were built there.
 
Transportfan said:
I read in the Star years ago that the boundary of the inner city could be said to extend to where the gridded side street pattern gives way to the suburban pattern of crescents and cul-de-sacs. You can almost say the inner city extends practically to the 905 along Yonge St. and Lakeshore using this definition. The Etobicoke Lakeshore certainly fits the description, with on-street storefronts and even streetcars reaching almost right to the Mississauga border.

Along Yonge, even though Yonge itself is more suburban north of Finch, the side streets are on a grid pattern right to Steeles and for a small area on the east side, even north of Steeles for a few blocks. There are even storefronts north of Steeles, but oddly, not on the Toronto side; until of course you reach Finch. I've always wondered why those stores were built there.
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Yeah the grid-pattern streets show that the area was developed when streetcars were the main form of transit, pre-WW2, usually along streetcar lines.

With regards to Victorian-style storefronts on Yonge north of Steeles, they were likely small towns/villages along the Yonge streetcar/interurban line which were later swallowed by suburban development.

Ex. https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.8745...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGasTQQUoR9Pi0S_zebcaEA!2e0
 
Most of those grid streets between Sheppard and Steeles in North York Township were laid out prior to the Second World War, but sparsely settled until the late 1940s, about the time the radial service to Richmond Hill was eliminated and replaced by buses.

Cul-de-sacs and cresents were not popular until the mid 1950s, southwest Scarborough was mostly built un the 1950s (ranch houses, bungalows and CMHC/Levittown style 1 1/2 storey houses) on mostly grid streets. (Exceptions around Fallingbrook, Cliffside, etc, where some housing was built earlier along Kingston Road.)

For me "Inner City" is the entire City of Toronto, East York south of the East Don, and all of York. A bit of fuzzyness around the former boundaries, such as Fallingbrook or Avenue Road in North York where the Nortown trolley coach ran.
 
ehlow said:
With regards to Victorian-style storefronts on Yonge north of Steeles, they were likely small towns/villages along the Yonge streetcar/interurban line which were later swallowed by suburban development.
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Those stores are not Victorian smalltown, like the kind in the downtown Richmond Hill imagery, as there was never a sizeable village at Yonge and Steeles. They're auto-age 1940s style storefronts like those on The Queensway or Avenue Rd. north of Lawrence.
 
ShonTron said:
For me "Inner City" is the entire City of Toronto, East York south of the East Don, and all of York. A bit of fuzzyness around the former boundaries, such as Fallingbrook or Avenue Road in North York where the Nortown trolley coach ran.
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Taylor Creek you mean?

If you look at the old boundaries it's surprising how much of East york is suburban. Only like 1/3 of it is inner city. But to be fair, a lot of the other 2/3 is greenspace.

One thing that surprised me also is how most of the Danforth is not East York. The only part of the Danforth within East York is the Shopper's World part. I don't think any of the subway stations were in East York. Even Victoria Park station is on the east side, and that's Scarborough.
 
ShonTron said:
Most of those grid streets between Sheppard and Steeles in North York Township were laid out prior to the Second World War, but sparsely settled until the late 1940s, about the time the radial service to Richmond Hill was eliminated and replaced by buses.

Cul-de-sacs and cresents were not popular until the mid 1950s, southwest Scarborough was mostly built un the 1950s (ranch houses, bungalows and CMHC/Levittown style 1 1/2 storey houses) on mostly grid streets. (Exceptions around Fallingbrook, Cliffside, etc, where some housing was built earlier along Kingston Road.)

For me "Inner City" is the entire City of Toronto, East York south of the East Don, and all of York. A bit of fuzzyness around the former boundaries, such as Fallingbrook or Avenue Road in North York where the Nortown trolley coach ran.
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Yeah I agree re North York. There was a map somewhere that showed some sort of population estimate for Metro Toronto with one dot for every 100 inhabitants or somethings. Basically Fallingbrook/Cliffside/Oakridge were relatively urbanized (as was Thompson Orchard and Kingsway in Etobicoke), but Willowdale, Lansing, Newtonbrook, etc were still sparsely inhabited, mostly below 500/km2. Probably got platted out in the 20s/30s but urbanized mostly in the late 40s and 50s. East York East of the Don and North of Taylor Creek was also mostly built (the housing that is) shortly after WWII.
 
East York I guess is a bit like Burnaby, BC - has an old streetcar suburb section in North Burnaby, but more of it is post-WWII development.
 
doady said:
One thing that surprised me also is how most of the Danforth is not East York. The only part of the Danforth within East York is the Shopper's World part. I don't think any of the subway stations were in East York. Even Victoria Park station is on the east side, and that's Scarborough.
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I believe Fulton Ave between Broadview and Pape, Aldwych Ave between Pape and Donlands, Milverton Ave between Donlands and Woodbine, and Danforth Ave from Woodbine to Vic Park is roughly the old east-west boundary between East York and Toronto. At least that is my experience looking at the old pre-amalgamation street signs. Culturally, those boundaries are still very grey. Many people who live as far north as Mortimer or Cosburn say they reside "on the Danforth" or in "Danforth Village" as opposed to "East York."
 
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