More customer service woes for the TTC

[nfitz]

It's more about the smiling and then driving off. That's just offensive and petty.

How do you know it was not an apologetic smile? I've seen passengers jump up and down and get upset the streetcar hasn't waited, when they are still half-way across the street ... and the car has already been at the stop for a while.

I understand not having the time to wait 5 seconds till passengers jump across the street if you're on a tight schedule, but looking at those passengers, smiling, and then driving off is insulting.

I think your reading a lot into it ... how far behind was the next streetcar?

Yeah. I regularly rode the Junction bus and drivers repeatedly grinned at me and others while refusing to open the door as they sat at the red light when pulling out of the loop. That bugged me.

I don't think that's a stop ... aren't they under threat of punishment if they open the doors there? That sounds more like a friendly "nothing I can do about it" smile, than anything sinister ...

Personally, when I receive really dreadful news ... I tend to look like I'm smiling ... it's not a smile, it's a grimace ...

 

[Mapleson]

Yeah, but there's something about screwing up on a job that should shorten one's tenure on the job.

If you hate customer service/find it too stressful, then driving a TTC bus isn't the job for you. If you find flying a plane to be too stressful, you shouldn't be a pilot. If you can't deal with staying up late, don't work the night shift. If you can't do the job, it's not your customers' or employer's fault.

I might add that quite obviously Conrad Black both lost his job and went to prison for his misbehaviour.

Are you suggesting 1/12 Canadians aren't fit for their jobs because they find their jobs stressful? Are you suggesting that it's better to be unemployed than to hold down a job that involves stressful situations beyond your control? Are you suggesting that employer's do not have a responsibility to reduce workplace stressors? Are you suggesting shift workers are responsible for selecting their hours of work?

As for The Right Honourable The Lord Black of Crossharbour, he still has his job in the UK House of Lord's and has had two of the three fraud convictions overturned.

It's more about the smiling and then driving off. That's just offensive and petty.

I understand not having the time to wait 5 seconds till passengers jump across the street if you're on a tight schedule, but looking at those passengers, smiling, and then driving off is insulting.

So you are insulted because he smiled? Would you prefer if he'd scowled, puckered up, or pouted? What facial expression would have altered the situation?

 

[Filip]

How do you know it was not an apologetic smile? I've seen passengers jump up and down and get upset the streetcar hasn't waited, when they are still half-way across the street ... and the car has already been at the stop for a while.

You don't grin when you're apologizing.

I think your reading a lot into it ... how far behind was the next streetcar?

Who knows? It's Queen, the next car is probably a Humber anyway, so the next Long Branch could be over 30 mins away!

Personally, when I receive really dreadful news ... I tend to look like I'm smiling ... it's not a smile, it's a grimace ...

I really doubt streetcar drivers have any empathy, otherwise there wouldn't be so many problems with them.

 

[nfitz]

You don't grin when you're apologizing.

I often do personally ... what are you supposed to do ... frown?

Yho knows? It's Queen, the next car is probably a Humber anyway, so the next Long Branch could be over 30 mins away!

It was your story about the driver smiling ... and you don't know how far behind the next streetcar was? Not even the time you vandalised the vehicle?

I really doubt streetcar drivers have any empathy, otherwise there wouldn't be so many problems with them.

My theory is they are human just like the rest of us.

And so many problems with them? I seldom have a problem with them ... not saying it doesn't happen ... but it's not a daily - or even weekly - occurrence.

 

[Filip]

I don't know about you, but I see a clear difference between grinning maliciously and that apologetic smile you mentioned, the ones I'd get from the TTC driver would be the former.

Usually I'd get that at Spadina/Queen going westbound, this was a while ago but I remember it pissing off the lot waiting for the streetcar. The key scratch was at Islington/Lake Shore, even worse as the frequencies there are really bad.

 

[nfitz]

I don't know about you, but I see a clear difference between grinning maliciously and that apologetic smile you mentioned, the ones I'd get from the TTC driver would be the former.

It just doesn't seem plausible to me ... but that's the downfall when you normally tend to think the best of people ...

 

[rbt]

However, one thing that I dispise about unions is their insistence on protecting those employees whos conduct would, in a private sector job, get them booted out on their ass.

Many of the companies better known for their customer service (WestJet and Southwest come to mind) both have a policy of standing behind their employees decisions over the customers, for nearly any reason.

Policy at a fine dining restaurant I worked at (during highschool) was to give anybody who made a ruckus a free meal and immediately ask them to leave and not return. They were added to a list which reservations were checked against to help ensure they did not return. It is the only non-chain restaurant in that city that seems to regularly undergo expansion; primarily due to the atmosphere.

So, to say that he would have been fired at a private firm is not correct. At some, certainly, but not all.


If I was management I would give all TTC employees vouchers that they can use to refund trips. This passenger could have been refunded the value of their trip and simultaneously kicked off.



The one time I've witnessed a driver kick someone off a bus, many of the riders also felt threatened; so the policy on the whole is probably a good one.

 

[rbt]

I don't know about you, but I see a clear difference between grinning maliciously and that apologetic smile you mentioned, the ones I'd get from the TTC driver would be the former.

We get what we measure. TTC drivers get reprimanded for being early or late when it is in their control (and yes, they really do).

They do not get much leeway in how long to wait. Some no doubt take a certain amount of glee from leaving behind passengers but, in the end, we get what we measure.

This isn't uncommon in business. Executives measure what is easy to measure (on-time performance of the vehicle) and don't measure what is far more important but difficult (customer getting to destination in a consistent timeframe).

I was hopeful the customer service initiatives would fix this but with funding being cut we certainly aren't going to increase the difficult of the performance benchmarks/measurements being used.

 

[Jonny5]

Drivers having to wait for that one more passenger seems to be getting out of control lately. I routinely am on streetcars stuck at Yonge for multiple light cycles because every person who pops out of the subway thinks they are entitled to get on and starts banging on the door just when the light turns green. Well guess what, the people who got to the stop on time have already been waiting 3 minutes. Next time, get there sooner. By leaving without picking up one more person, the driver is providing excellent customer service to the dozens of passengers that made it to their stops on time. At some places, passengers could just keep walking up every second for all of rush hour. Do we let them just keep boarding? No.

 

[christiesplits]

I can only report on my personal empirical evidence, but out of the many squabbles I have seen between customer and TTC employee, the vast majority of them have been instigated by the customer.

When I was around 13 a TTC driver yapped at me for putting my feet up on a subway seat that was only two weeks in service. I was also refused entry when I was 15 and paid a child's fare. Both were legitimate snipes and I hold nothing against the staff 10-15 years later.

Since then I have observed:

- Passenger assaulting another passenger for allegedly touching her behind, and yelling at the TTC driver for trying to mediate.
- Passenger assaulting a TTC driver who when putting in an incorrect amount of change was told to leave the bus, only to be call the driver a "bitch" upon leaving.
- A day after the last TTC strike, observed a young guy who upon leaving Pape Station yelled "get back to work," and proceeded to give the finger.
- Probably a dozen incidents on the night bus, including refusing entry to drunks and troublemakers

 

[unimaginative2]

Are you suggesting 1/12 Canadians aren't fit for their jobs because they find their jobs stressful?

Sorry, but half of Canadians don't blow up at their customers or fellow employees. There's a difference between being stressed and that stress impeding your ability to do your job.

Are you suggesting that it's better to be unemployed than to hold down a job that involves stressful situations beyond your control?

Yeah, right. That's exactly what I'm suggesting. I'm suggesting that it's better to be otherwise employed than to work in a job where you can't cope with the assigned tasks.

Are you suggesting that employer's do not have a responsibility to reduce workplace stressors? Are you suggesting shift workers are responsible for selecting their hours of work?

This is some of the most ridiculous rhetorical questioning I've ever seen. Are you saying that no customers should ever ride the TTC to ensure that drivers aren't unduly stressed??? What does any of this have to do with what I said? Employers have a responsibility to reduce workplace stressors where they can, but they can't do that if they're inherent in the job--i.e. customer service in a customer service job. These drivers that blow up need to learn that their job is to move people, not to move vehicles around the city, and if they can't handle that, they should be doing another job, whether at the TTC or at another organization. It's not acceptable in any other customer service position to shout at, let alone physically assault, one of your customers.

 

[unimaginative2]

I might add, more seriously, that all this business about an individual over-stressed driver is obviously nonsense. Individual misbehaviour will happen in any organization. The TTC has clearly had more of it than most, and the reason is demonstrated by the action of the supervisor. The supervisor, whose job is to ensure that the driver perform his job, chose instead to support the driver's unreasonable action and go so far as to attack the several passengers who were objecting to and documenting his behaviour. This demonstrates an institutional tolerance for drivers who have contempt for the customer service aspect of their jobs. Had the supervisor chosen to instruct the driver to proceed along his route and delivered at least the perfunctory apology to the passengers that the driver adamantly refused to provide, the situation would undoubtedly have been resolved. He chose a different course.

 

[Still Waters]

I don't mean to defend bad behaviour, but I think it is too easy to blame the person in the uniform. Everyone has a story about being ticked off at the TTC at some point. That is almost inevitable on a system that moves 1.5 million people per day. But keep in mind that, while you see that particular grumpy driver once and even though you may have been quite nice to them, they are seeing thousands of customers per day, and odds are that they have seen and been the direct target of more bad behaviour than you have. And many of the people who ride the TTC are not all the "gems" of society. Yes, the drivers are being paid to do a customer service job; yes, they should be nice to everyone; yes, they should shut up and take it on the chin; yes, they should keep their problems to themselves and not take it out on others; yes...yes...yes. But no one is a machine, no matter how well paid they are. And I've had plenty of poor experiences in private retail establishments that I can guarantee didn't serve anywhere near the number of customers per day that the TTC does. And if I do bother to complain to the manager, they are just as likely to take the side of their employee and tell me it was my fault. So, while the TTC should undoubtedly do better, I don't think you can put it all at the feet of unions, or the public sector.

I don't know who was mostly to blame in the particular incident at Bathurst Station, but I do know that it took more than one guy to escalate it and to keep it going. In my travels, I have observed that tolerance and forebearance appear to be less prevalent character traits today, particularly when people are dealing with those that they see as being paid to serve them. As for unions protecting too many, I'm sure that is true in some cases. But I also think it would be just as bad to fire someone because of one bad day or one incident of poor customer service. If there is a body of evidence, i.e. several incidences, that indicates a problem employee , then fine, let the progressive discipline process work to its final conclusion, which is dismissal. Contrary to the right-leaning propaganda these days, the lack of public humiliation of the employee does not mean that there is no discipline, nor does it mean that no one ever loses their job. But, having heard a second-hand account of the story, the accepted knee-jerk reaction anymore is the equivalent of "off with his head!" and this is a trend I find disturbing and uncivilised. I'm not saying that we shouldn't hold people to account, but there is always more to the story than you know, and IMHO, many of the knee-jerk reactions and resulting stereotyping of employees belong more in the sweatshops of 19th century industrialised England than 21st century North America.

 

[drum118]

I let 2 drivers have it after waiting 40 minutes for a 505 eastbound. The first one was short turn at Boardview and the 2nd one was follow by 3 more. I have the photos to prove it since I was doing a lot of photo shooting in the area as well trying to get a photo of each car in the system before they are gone. The driver of the car I got on change off at Broadview. As we were going north on Boardview, 5 westbound 505 were heading south and where did they come from?

A few people walked up from Queen since no 504 eastbound were showing up. I saw a fair number of 504 going west on Dundas.

There comes a time when people will loose it.

There are drivers out there who like to drive very slow to the point they can have all the cars in one end of the city, leaving hugh gaps. I have seen divers and supervisors chrew these drivers out and don't think a thing about it.

If you want to be a driver, than be a driver to service and move the paying customer. If you don't want to do that, then move on as you are hurting the rest of the drivers and pissing off everyone.

If you worked for me like you do for TTC, I would be showing you the door very quickly.

Then, were in the hell was line management??? Ohhh!! they don't know how to do line management in the first place.

TTC stands for Transit Tample Customers

 

[Still Waters]

I will agree with you, drum118, that the TTC needs to rework its line management culture. While there are some good supervisors, there are too many that let the drivers get away with playing games with the schedule because it is easier than holding their feet to the fire. There is no excuse for several vehicles leaving the route end points at the same time. If 3 leave the terminal at the same time, then at least two of them are not on time. IMO, this is the biggest issue that the TTC has to deal with right now, bigger than cleanliness, bigger than budgets/funding, bigger than expansion plans.