Metrolinx: Presto Fare Card

[crs1026]

I an trying to understand this Presto card. I need to buy ttc tokens., say for 3 tokens its $8.70 (2.90 per token). Now if I use debit card, I am debited $8.70. Now if I have a Presto card, am I not also debited $8.70 to load onto card for technically 3 TTC trips? Or are customers charged a fee with that $8.70?

All e-payments charge the buyer a hidden fee somehow, whether you use debit card or credit card or paypal or whatever to top up your Presto Card. But that's not the issue - most of us use epayment for just about everything these days and we just eat the fees. We probably don't even notice them, except on our bank statement.

The problem is the fees that the vendor is charged when you use an epayment process. With Tokens/Paper Metropass, TTC ended up with about 93% of the $2.90 fare to spend on running the system. When you use Presto, both the epayment service (that you use to top up your card) and Metrolinx (who take the fare out of your Presto card and distribute it to whatever transit agency you use) take a fee out of the amount you paid. TTC may end up with less revenue from the same number of riders paying the same number of fares.

The question would be, why has Metrolinx's fee structure become as expensive as it has. You would think that the goal is to make the fees cheaper than selling and handling tokens. That way, more of the $2.90 can be used to deliver transit. Presto is not a simple system, but if its cost has spiralled, there need to be questions asked.

- Paul

 

[TransitBart]

I an trying to understand this Presto card. I need to buy ttc tokens., say for 3 tokens its $8.70 (2.90 per token). Now if I use debit card, I am debited $8.70. Now if I have a Presto card, am I not also debited $8.70 to load onto card for technically 3 TTC trips? Or are customers charged a fee with that $8.70? Is this what I am understanding from this fee service? I am trying to understand, in this age of smart everything, why would customers need to pay a fee to load something onto a card? If I go to Starbuck and buy a $20.00 card, I believe they are now relaodable. Are customers charged an additional fee at Starbucks? I would hope not cause its cheaper for Starbucks not to have to manufacturer so many cards, but just make them reloadable. People are already paying monthly fees for debit cards. For some its a flat fee so now with this Presto card they are being told its an additional fee? If this is true, now i understand why TTC was also against it even though there are other reason

I believe that since the times of Jesus we have been debating the right fee for the money changers in the market.

This dilemma is one of the joys that stores have lived with since the beginning of credit cards.

In the days of cash, you paid $20.00, the seller got her $20.00 and then the seller in her overheads, had to balance the till and go to the bank. (And also control fraud, have a cash suupervisor etc.) Those costs never appeared (directly) as costs on her income statement although she had them.

To avoid all that, something has to be paid, right?

So credit card companies charge a percentage of what we pay. In this case, say 2% which would be very low. No cash is handled. No trips to the bank. But you pay $100 and the merchant gets only $0.98. The other two percent is for terminals, issuing cards, advertising to you, sending the merchant his or her statement. In other words, running a credit card business.

Presto is like a mini - very mini - credit card business with its own cards, readers, overheads and other costs.

In a nutshell: what is th right price for the "money handling" part. Ten percent as in Ottawa or a good deal less like modern credit cards?

 

[nfitz]

I'm gonna reply to my own post because it made me think of three things.

1. Are there "kid" Presto fares anywhere? I'd have needed that as a kid for school.
2. What prevents me from using a kid Presto card if there is one if I'm a cheapskate (or crook)?
3. For the city's no charge child fare - are theobromine to give out "no charge" Presto cards? No charge to the user, but subsidized by the rest.

1) Yes, if you have a child's Presto Card (6 to 12), you can tap on at a TTC turnstile (or streetcar), and you get charged $0. But you can go through. (no point on the streetcars, but I've done it with the kid showing how it's done).

2) It makes a different noise when you tap in. There are cameras monitoring the turnstiles. If you get inspected, it will be evident. Sure, some will do it, just like some walk in now without paying.

3) There haven't been any so far. My child has one anyway because she's had it for GO since she was 6. If they are less than 6, they won't be travelling alone, and you can just carry them through.

 

[nfitz]

The TTC should have made this this an issue as should have city council especially during the last election.

Last election? This was all during the 2010 election.

The people clearly spoke what they thought of those that were trying to save the city money, and instead voted in a money-wasting alcoholic.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'm gonna reply to my own post because it made me think of three things.

1. Are there "kid" Presto fares anywhere? I'd have needed that as a kid for school.
2. What prevents me from using a kid Presto card if there is one if I'm a cheapskate (or crook)?
3. For the city's no charge child fare - are they going to give out "no charge" Presto cards? No charge to the user, but subsidized by the rest.

See link for this information on...

Customer Service Outlets are located at select locations across the GTHA transit network. They provide the following services for PRESTO cardholders:

• Purchasing a new or replacement PRESTO card
• Loading funds and passes to your PRESTO card
• Setting up a concession fare (child, student or senior discount) or Default Trip for GO Transit
• Obtaining a refund
• Troubleshooting
• Obtaining general information
• Reporting a lost or stolen card

I'm assuming that the child or student PRESTO cards would be set up with a datestamp of the kid's birthday. I'm assuming that the card will switch automatically to an "adult" after the person is no longer a child or student

The fare inspector will have to verify that the person with the card is the person that can use it at a discount.

 

[nfitz]

I'm assuming that the child or student PRESTO cards would be set up with a datestamp of the kid's birthday. I'm assuming that the card will switch automatically to an "adult" after the person is no longer a child or student

I'd assume so. And when I popped by Union station to get my daughter a card a day before her 6th birthday (she was excited that she'd get her own card!) their computer system couldn't issue it, because they record birthdate, and it wouldn't accept a date for a child less than 6 (not even by a day). Not a big deal, as I work nearby, and just popped back the next day - but not very well thought out.

However, the cards are transferrable - the only requirement being that the person using is in the same fare category. Seems odd though, that if I want to get a Prestocard for my 3-year old to get through the faregates, it's easier just to get a second one for my 8-year old and use that.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I'd assume so. And when I popped by Union station to get my daughter a card a day before her 6th birthday (she was excited that she'd get her own card!) their computer system couldn't issue it, because they record birthdate, and it wouldn't accept a date for a child less than 6 (not even by a day). Not a big deal, as I work nearby, and just popped back the next day - but not very well thought out.

However, the cards are transferrable - the only requirement being that the person using is in the same fare category. Seems odd though, that if I want to get a Prestocard for my 3-year old to get through the faregates, it's easier just to get a second one for my 8-year old and use that.

A bit like the vaccine controversy. If the vaccine is "early", it does not count that the vaccine "happened".

 

[TransitBart]

I'd assume so. And when I popped by Union station to get my daughter a card a day before her 6th birthday (she was excited that she'd get her own card!) their computer system couldn't issue it, because they record birthdate, and it wouldn't accept a date for a child less than 6 (not even by a day). Not a big deal, as I work nearby, and just popped back the next day - but not very well thought out.

However, the cards are transferrable - the only requirement being that the person using is in the same fare category. Seems odd though, that if I want to get a Prestocard for my 3-year old to get through the faregates, it's easier just to get a second one for my 8-year old and use that.

Teething problems on a major move forward.

Fare gates and Presto - Good.

Turnstiles - unfathomable in 2016 outside of the most primitive places on earth. Ah. Great memories of carrying hockey bags on the subway and getting them snared in the turnstile. Good times. Now that I think about it, I may have squared myself on one too once or twice. Good riddance.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I got on the Parliament bus this week to get to Castle Frank station, and didn't know they hadn't installed Presto yet. Driver let me get on for free, so I rode the subway for free as well. I wondered how much money TTC has lost from operators giving free rides to Presto users.

 

[Steve X]

I got on the Parliament bus this week to get to Castle Frank station, and didn't know they hadn't installed Presto yet. Driver let me get on for free, so I rode the subway for free as well. I wondered how much money TTC has lost from operators giving free rides to Presto users.

They don't have presto on over 95% of them buses. Some would make you pay again.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Used the new turnstile at bay today. They take way too long to open and close. But they might need to be calibrated though. It takes several seconds.

 

[chriskayTO]

Used the new turnstile at bay today. They take way too long to open and close. But they might need to be calibrated though. It takes several seconds.

I also used them st Bay on Saturday and found them fairly responsive, TBH. However, someone I was with who used them at Main station said they opened slower than at Main, so presumably this is a calibration problem or a bug to work out.

It was fun watching people react to them, especially when exiting, some people were prepared to push them open, some very tentatively walked up.

Then again, some have clearly travelled to practically any major world system and knew exactly what was up and just walked right through.

 

[Steve X]

The ones at Main seems pretty good for typical walking pace but not electric wheelchairs at their standard speed. I'm having doubts that they'll be resilient enough for the worst behaviours that happens here.

 

[steveintoronto]

Not to dwell on "what if?"...but you have to wonder sometimes, as many posters here have:

AUSTRALIA: ‘Open payment’ technology enabling passengers to use credit and debit cards instead of dedicated ticket media is to be trialled in Sydney during 2017, New South Wales Minister for Transport & Infrastructure Andrew Constance announced at the Future Transport Summit on April 18.

The announcement was welcomed by Cubic Transport Systems, which supplied Sydney’s Opal smart card system and was Transport for London’s technology contractor in the development of what it says was ‘the world’s first open payments system’. Launched on London buses in 2012 and expanded across the city’s transport network in 2014, contactless payment by bank card accounts for about 1 million trips/day, or more than 25% of trips in London.

‘We're all about making Opal even better’, said Constance. ‘Cubic and the team behind it have done an incredible job. Now we want to use the technology behind Opal to further enhance the system.’

The intellectual property rights to the system developed for London are owned by TfL, which is offering to license the technology to other transport bodies. A TfL Finance & Policy Committee meeting on April 21 is due to authorise a fixed-price proposal for licensing the back office software and associated services and supporting customisation to meet local needs. Pricing would be on a commercial basis, and TfL would retain all intellectual property rights.
[...]
An article about the development of London's contactless payment technology appeared in the September 2014 issue of Metro Report International magazine.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...sport-for-london-open-payment-technology.html

 

[innsertnamehere]

^TTC will probably have the same cabability around 2017 too. the presto machines being installed have the hardware to support credit / debit / apple pay / whatever, they just have to write the programming for it.