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Metrolinx: Bombardier Flexity Freedom & Alstom Citadis Spirit LRVs

crs1026 said:
One has to think that if the final assembly facility can be so readily converted to the maintenance facility, it can't be so elaborate or capital intensive that it matters. Seems like one would be readily set up somewhere else. With the potential size of the ML orders, it will be paid off over the length of this initial order. That positions well for attracting further orders on a more widely competitive basis.

- Paul
Click to expand...
Same thought occurred to me, and beyond that, Siemen's prior commitment to set-up in Mississauga if they won the contract for the TTC:
[...]Or it could mean 200 new jobs in the similarly struggling Toronto region, where Siemens has pledged to build a plant if it gets the deal.
[...]
The other key requirement: 25 per cent, or about $300 million, of the fleet order has to involve Canadian parts and labour.
[...]
Both have set up plants elsewhere to meet content requirements.
[...]
Siemens, which has its Canadian headquarters in Mississauga, says it would have no problem meeting the 25 per cent mark. It has been talking to the province about sites for an assembly plant employing about 200 workers plus engineers.

Its preference is to stay in the GTA. And on that score, Siemens has new statistics on its side: Three-month seasonally adjusted figures in March showed that at 8.8 per cent, the Toronto area's jobless rate has outpaced Thunder Bay's 8.6.

The workforce is here; the client is here, said Mario Peloquin, Siemens' director of mobility.

But the Canadian content rule is more complex than it appears.

"It's a tough number for any company because of the strict method of calculating the 25 per cent – it's 25 per cent of the price to the customer," said Peloquin, who notes there are costs attached to opening a plant.
[...]
Click to expand...
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2009/04/18/a_streetcar_now_for_city_of_tomorrow.html

There's lots more reference on-line, but that should suffice to make the point. This information is crucial, because at some point, the decision must be made to cut and run or not on BBD, and that decision is forced to be based on accessing reliable alternatives. It appears we have alternatives.

At what point do you leave a relationship after being constantly lied to and put into expensive, awkward situations? I think we're past that point...

Edit to Add: On the 25% content requirement: I don't have link or reference handy, but IIRC, that has been softened, not the least because it causes far more trouble than it's worth. Ideally, assembly should also be done at the originating factory that developed the design, where the most apt and equipped techs can deal with *first generation components* (not copies) to ensure the integrity of the design is met.

Take the "25% content" value in off-sets, not assembly, save for units fully tested but partially dis-assembled for shipping.

Edit to Add:
I question Steve X's claim on BBD's 'proprietary' ATO. Haven't fully digested this yet, but this is revealing:
[...]
THE NEW SYSTEM
The Bombardier train control system is their Cityflo 650 product. It isn’t new. It was originally
developed in the 1990s by Westinghouse6 of Pittsburgh USA. The 650 system uses radio to
provide both train detection and control over sections of line that Bombardier call “regions”. As with most other modern automated systems, it is divided into Automatic Train Protection (ATP), Automatic Train Operation (ATO) and Automatic Train Supervision (ATS). The core safety system is ATP. Bombardier adds “region” to the front of their descriptions so ATP becomes RATP and ATO becomes RATO.

The ATS functionality is provided from the control centre (on the SSL, the new one at
Hammersmith control centre) and is connected to a trackside radio transmission network. This network links to the RATP, the RATO, and the RATP computer systems on either side of the region. These sub-systems are responsible for the safe and optimal performance of the train control system. Information flows between these sub-systems through the trackside network and to the central control network.

What Bombardier calls “Base Data Radio” (BDR) equipment, connected to each RATP,
communicates with the vehicles via a leaky coaxial antenna or conventional radio system. Train control data is exchanged between the trackside and train-borne systems through this link referred to as the “Train to Wayside Communication (TWC)” link. In addition, the system has “norming points” - fixed points along the track that are used to update the on-board train location software.

These do a similar job to the APR (Absolute Position Reference) points on the Westinghouse
Victoria line ATC system or the 25m points where the transmission loops of the S40 system cross over.
[...continues in technical detail, including how to "overlay" other systems...]
Click to expand...
http://www.railway-technical.com/UNarticleonSSRResignallingv1.pdf
 
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The Ottawa trains are more like 160 feet, and they aren't the same model as the one shown a page back. It's actually a new variant of the Citadis Dualis, which is more of a tram-train with a higher top speed.
 
Tram-trains are generally a service that runs intercity like regional trains, on mainline railways, then runs as a tram inside those cities. It's more of a European thing, where there are lots of small dense individual towns and cities relatively close to each other.

The technology is generally the same as regular modern trams, though they can run faster, and are are generally longer models.
 
It's alive!

From Waterloo Regional Councillor Tom Galloway:
https://twitter.com/tomjgalloway14/status/801590709665038336

flex.jpg



https://twitter.com/tomjgalloway14/status/801770158838738944
flex2.jpg


Okay, maybe "alive" isn't quite right. Still in incubation.
 

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nfitz said:
Presumably car 1 is the prototype. Which similar to the TTC prototypes will later be modified for service.
Click to expand...

WAIT.......3 months ago BBr produced photos of the prototype showing the car at the EXACT stage of construction. I assume the latest photos are from a recent visit.
If this car is what you say it is....WHAT HAVE THEY DONE SINCE THEN...>?!?!?! surely the car should've been put together by now. I really hope youre wrong and that the prototype is sitting somewhere at 96% completion.
bbr really need to lose the contract and be FIRED right now if this is the prototype theyve been boasting about for months....
 
cplchanb said:
WAIT.......3 months ago BBr produced photos of the prototype showing the car at the EXACT stage of construction. I assume the latest photos are from a recent visit.
If this car is what you say it is....WHAT HAVE THEY DONE SINCE THEN...>?!?!?! surely the car should've been put together by now. I really hope youre wrong and that the prototype is sitting somewhere at 96% completion.
bbr really need to lose the contract and be FIRED right now if this is the prototype theyve been boasting about for months....
Click to expand...
I don't recall seeing photos of the Waterloo prototype, just the Metrolinx prototype.

Though perhaps they are one and the same; though where that car lands (Eglinton or Waterloo), I don't know.
 
The pictures above were taken yesterday, and according to Galloway, are of the first Region of Waterloo (see "R.O.W." on the windshield) production vehicle.
 
Markster said:
The pictures above were taken yesterday, and according to Galloway, are of the first Region of Waterloo (see "R.O.W." on the windshield) production vehicle.
Click to expand...
I guess we can ask Coun Galloway if he has been shown the prototype yet and where that sits on the schedule...
 
cplchanb said:
I guess we can ask Coun Galloway if he has been shown the prototype yet and where that sits on the schedule...
Click to expand...
It is very unlikely he is going to have that information.
He's from the Region of Waterloo, and was there to see the Region of Waterloo's future vehicle.
 
It's not on its truck, and it's not hooked up to the rest of its segments. I wonder what that might mean.

It's ecouraging that there is a TTC car in the background, but I only see one. The commitment to TTC is what - three more by year end ?

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
It's not on its truck, and it's not hooked up to the rest of its segments. I wonder what that might mean.

It's ecouraging that there is a TTC car in the background, but I only see one. The commitment to TTC is what - three more by year end ?

- Paul
Click to expand...


simple...it means its not done.... even though they shouldve had it completed...
 
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