Mar 30 Observations: Fleet Street, Bathurst St

[CDL.TO]

There's some major changes to streetcar and bus services along Bathurst St today. But even if you live on Bathurst, you'd still be forgiven for not knowing.

The 509 and 511 streetcars returned to Exhibition Loop via Fleet Street today, even though TTC posters claimed that shuttle buses would be running on March 30 (today). Fleet St is now a Queens Quay/Spadina style ROW and streetcars were running smoothly. Fleet Loop (around the lighthouse) is still under construction. What I am curious about is what is to become of Fleet Street for automobile traffic. The only parts currently open to traffic are eastbound between the Lakeshore/Fleet transfer and westbound between Fort York Blvd and Strachan. Other than that westbound section between Fort York Blvd and Strachan, which provides access to the armoury and the fort, Fleet St seems to serve no purpose. Access to Neptune is from Fort York Blvd and access to Malibu is from Bathurst. If they eliminated the strange Fleet/Lakeshore transfer, they would have room for a left-turn lane on Lakeshore at Bathurst and could eliminate an unnecessary traffic light on Lakeshore.

Today, streetcars returned to St. Clair West station after a 10-month (?!?) hiatus. In preparation of track replacement, the 7 BATHURST bus was split in two, with 7B running from Bloor to st. Clair West station and 7C running from St. Clair West to Steeles. As someone who uses St. Clair West every day, today was the first I ever saw of posters explaining this change in the Bathurst Bus. The TTC's Diversions page has no real notice of the change in the 7 bus. The TTC posters plastered all over St. Clair West are a mix of when the station was closed last year, when it was partially reopened in December, and of today's status.

Last December when St. Clair West partially reopened, the TTC had staff on hand to direct customers and signage ready and installed. I thought the TTC had learned something from the chaos that followed previous route changes. But today, with a complete change in the routes that serve St. Clair West and a reorganisation of which routes serve which platforms, customers were confused and there was no one around to provide assistance. The 7B (BATHURST South) drops passengers off at the other side of the station from the 7C (BATHURST North). Confused passengers trying to figure out where to go, saw the "7 BATHURST 7A Northbound to Wilson" sign and hopped on the 90 VAUGHAN bus when it served that same platform. The 7A isn't even running during the construction period; those signs should have been removed.

 

[drum118]

509 streetcars were on fleet ROW Sunday and drivers are to leave each loop every 15 minutes on the quarter. Only 3 cars on the route.

Drivers were saying they are running late with the few riders they were picking up. If they were leave the loop as noted, they have to do the run in 12 minutes. If they are having this much problem on Sunday, there were going to be a lot of piss off riders come Monday. This was said to the Chief Supervisor at the CNE loop.

The 509 I got off heading east at Bathurst could not obtain right turning lights. It sat there for 10 minutes until told to go up to King and then to Union. There were 3 511 sitting behind the 509 at this point. Another 509 arrived and she try throwing the switch since it not hookup yet and it would not move. She sat for 5 minutes until told to go to King.

A few minutes later the 3rd 509 arrived and he try throwing the switch with no luck. It finally went north. It is a safety issue why streetcars cannot turn right on a red.

Why did TTC not have the switch hookup considering they had time this month to do it in the first place?

An overhead crew show up some 20 minutes later while I was up at Fort York.

When I walked back to Fleet, the crew truck was pulling away. I saw they apply grease to the switch.

It was an hour later before the first 509E arrived back at Bathurst and I got on him and it was the same one I got off earlier. He got the switch to throw as well getting a 5 second light. He had to sit until the next light change.

You should heard what the riders were saying to the driver for having to wait an hour for a car.

Other than the Subway stations and the Spadina Stop, there are no notices posted at any of the 509 stops regarding the detour for this weekend as well resumption of normal service. I saw none on the Bathurst line south of King. Don't remember seeing any from the Bathurst station as I was not looking for them.

Riders who were waiting on the Bathurst north platform Sat waiting for the 511N were told by my 509E bus driver there were no more 511 service. They had to go up to Fort York to catch the 509N bus.

I saw a Bay Bus 6 servicing Bathurst and Fleet of all things on Sat.

The 511/509 are not to pickup riders at Fort York E on Fleet. The Drivers are to let the riders off on the east side of Fort York where the curb is, not the platform of the west side. The 3 west bound stops between Fort York and Bathurst still have out of service on them.

TTC pour concrete in one pour Sat after 12.30pm for both tracks on Bathurst and the expansion joint that were replace Friday night. Last of the welding was taking place when I saw it on Sat. Friday afternoon crews were removing the asphalt between the rails forcing streetcars to wait until some work was done on both tracks.

When I hit St Clair at Young after by visited to Fleet on Sunday, I caught a convoy of 6 streetcar heading west. The first one was being push by the 2nd with the Chief Supervisor from CNE following them. I got on the 3rd one.

When we hit the loop, they were just pushing the 1st one into the station loop. They push the car straight around the station and then head west up the ramp. Wondering why the looping in the first place and not just bypass the station all together?

When I headed west on the 512 bus, there were now 3 cars just west of Bathurst stop, sitting there with the disable car on the lead. The first 2 started to move and turn south as we hit Vaughan Rd. Oh I can see this is going to be fun come next weekend when the Bathurst line get cut off as plan.

Someone hit the Young Shelter as part of the roof glass is bent and tape off. This was done some time after my first visit to St Clair Sat. The contractor doing the loop was busy Sat night doing the final clean up with the truck sweeper in the work area. All the ceiling slats that were sitting on the platform are gone.

The road work along with rest of the work is to resume in April and completed by July for Fleet.

The stop for the east bound stop at Fort York will be in the tress east of Fort York like a normal stop with a shelter. The other stops will have a cut in the curb to allow riders standing on the sidewalk to walk out to the streetcars like the good old days.

Where the current stop light for Lake Shore is now will be use for a new street connecting Fleet and Fort York as well traffic from the Lake Shore. No connection to the Lake Shore for the new street as far as I know.

TTC Staff wonder why driver have the problems today when they have to deal with problems they cause in the first place.

Major of drivers showing up for work this weekend were not told of the detour until they show up for work. I notice a number of drivers having TTC stop markers in the window shield area.

Photo's to follow.

 

[unimaginative2]

Drivers were saying they are running late with the few riders they were picking up. If they were leave the loop as noted, they have to do the run in 12 minutes. If they are having this much problem on Sunday, there were going to be a lot of piss off riders come Monday. This was said to the Chief Supervisor at the CNE loop.

No more pissed off than they've been for years, when the streetcars showed up pretty much at random. At least the TTC's apparently trying now.

Great updates, drum. You've got a good eye!

 

[drum118]

No more pissed off than they've been for years, when the streetcars showed up pretty much at random. At least the TTC's apparently trying now.

Great updates, drum. You've got a good eye!

Not really since headway went from 12 to 15 minutes on Sunday.

With TTC ram roding the Western Waterfront Extension by Fort York, TTC bean counter will find the current headway for the 509 will have to increase since riders to the west of Queens Quay will use the extension causing the ridership to fall more than it is today. Once the new LRT's show up, it will get worse.

With TTC pushing the Fort York route, TTC would be better off killing the streetcars on QQ and put buses down there. If this took place, TTC would please a lot of residents who want the streetcars off QQ and use that space for their cars.

The quality of service is poor now for the 509.

TTC is to decide now if to retain the 509 with better service using streetcars or use buses since the track work for the QQ is schedule for 2009 replacement. If TTC use buses, TTC just save a huge amount of money on the capital side.

TTC lacks a vision for the waterfront as well else where.

 

[unimaginative2]

I definitely don't support replacing the Queens Quay streetcar with buses. It's a decent route that's reasonably fast, and far more people ride it than would ride a bus route. It's also throwing away a huge amount of money that was invested very recently. It's a moot point anyway, since I guarantee that the group currently running the TTC will not allow an inch of streetcar service to be eliminated.

The Queens Quay route isn't terrible. If they could make the signal priority a little better, so that the lights would turn green before the cars make it to the intersection rather than forcing them to stop briefly at every light, it could be even faster. The problem is a total lack of route management on the part of the TTC. I used to ride it all the time before I gave up. I'd be waiting at Union Station in that dank underground loop for half an hour before a car finally shows up, only to have three arrive at once. Do they then leave staggered? No, of coruse not. The clump of cars head back out onto the line together. With all the best signal priority and right of ways in the world, a route won't keep its headway if its operators don't care.

 

[EnviroTO]

What? They are thinking of pulling the streetcar off of Queens Quay when it is put on Fort York? They just built the line between Spadina and Bathurst recently. This is the problem with the TTC and city having no real city wide plan for so long and instead building small projects. With a new line on Fort York between Spadina and Bathurst, Fleet redone, Queens Quay between Bathurst and Spadina recently built, a new line north-south on Cherry, Waterfront West, Waterfront East, Queens Quay rebuild, etc... there is still no downtown map showing where actual routes will run from and to in 2020. It seems like the Cherry ROW and Fort York ROW don't yet fit into any masterplan yet they are being prioritized.

What residents on QQ would want to get rid of the streetcar? The only time QQ doesn't run smoothly is when Lakeshore doesn't move smoothly and when it is busy no amount of lanes will fix it. If the streetcars aren't running on QQ then they are running on Bremner which would be a disaster when the SkyDome lets out... they wouldn't be able to move.

 

[DSC]

The TTC plans to redo the streetcar tracks on QQ from Spadina to York/Bay in 2009 or 2010 at same time as Waterfront Toronto is supposed to make QQ more pedestrian/cyclist friendly by reducing traffic lanes - the latest plan I saw was to put both streetcar tracks on south side of traffic lanes, not in middle of the street. (This follows the temporary greening of QQ in 2006.)One major problem is the portal on QQ just west of Bay leading to Union Station. This needs work because of the QQ east streetcar line (Union to Cherry) has to get into the tunnel to Union; there is an ongoing Environmental Assessment on this project but it is supposed to result in this streetcar line being built in 2011. The QQ east line will, eventually, link up with the streetcar line going down Cherry Street from King to the rail tracks - this is approved and is to be built in 2010. Once these lines are linked one could have streetcar service from Union or Exhibition to Broadview. This QQ east line will be extended into the Portlands, planned for some time after 2012.

 

[W. K. Lis]

There should have been supervisors on Fleet Street on the first day of operations to make sure that all was working as advertised (...advertised somewhere). Then the supervisors should have been on the scene to report or fix problems as it happens, not second- or third- hand. Instead, they are in their offices getting radio or cell phone reports. I guess they didn't want to be outside in the cold.

 

[unimaginative2]

If the streetcars aren't running on QQ then they are running on Bremner which would be a disaster when the SkyDome lets out... they wouldn't be able to move.

...which is why the city wants to put the new Transit City express Waterfront West LRT down Bremner.

 

[EnviroTO]

...which is why the city wants to put the new Transit City express Waterfront West LRT down Bremner.

I'm not sure if you are reading my post incorrectly or are mocking the city's plans.

 

[unimaginative2]

That would be the latter.

 

[CDL.TO]

I'm glad to say that they removed the "7 BATHURST 7A Northbound to Wilson" sign.

But a greater cock-up emerged. Prior to streetcars returning to St. Clair West (SCW) on Sunday, 512 bus passengers coming from destinations west of Oakwood were required to get off the bus at Vaughan or Bathurst and wait for a streetcar. Now that streetcars have returned to SCW, passengers have to take the bus to the station and change there. But the TTC put no signs at Vaughan and Bathust to point out this fact! Hundreds and hundreds of people have gotten off the bus to transfer to a streetcar that will never come and with no signs telling them why!

SCW is now serving 4 frequent bus routes (plus 2 less-frequent ones), and a frequent streetcar. In order for this to work during rush hours (and sometimes off-peak) buses have to keep moving; unload, load, and leave. There simply is no space for 2 vehicles from the same route to be in the station. But several times now (when I've been there) there's been a backup of TTC vehicles right out of the station, caused by drivers getting off their buses, standing around, and chatting. It's causing TTC gridlock!

 

[Urban Newbie]

Re: The 509 route.

For someone living in Liberty Village who works right downtown, is this a good alternative to the King Streetcar? (Which I'm trying to avoid at all costs!)

Anyone know how long the entire loop takes, from Exhibition to Union?

Thanks!

 

[drum118]

Re: The 509 route.

For someone living in Liberty Village who works right downtown, is this a good alternative to the King Streetcar? (Which I'm trying to avoid at all costs!)

Anyone know how long the entire loop takes, from Exhibition to Union?

Thanks!

It depends where you want to go to.

After Sept 1, headway increase on the 509 to 8-9 at peak and 15 off peak.

Add in your time to walk to the loop.

Ridership west of Bathurst is non existing so you can pick your seat with no problem. Try getting on a 509 at Union can be fun if you like standing in long lines at time to get to either the 510 or 509 during the summer.

 

[Urban Newbie]

After Sept 1, headway increase on the 509 to 8-9 at peak and 15 off peak.

Thanks, drum. Yeah, I'd be hopping on at Strachan so I'm all "yay" for being able to get a seat.

Pardon my ignorance, but do you mean that the streetcar comes every 8-9 mins after September 1? Or that it completes its run (EX to Union) in 8 to 9 mins? (I'm guess that wrong - seems too fast!)