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London Tate Modern Expansion

FYI, did you know that they started construction on a Bakerloo extension to Clerkenwell years back and never finished? I've got a tube map somwhere that shows it under construction.

samsonyuen:

Are you on the Isle of Dogs, or elsewhere? What do you find living in the Docklands like, particularily in terms of services? I like the neighbourhoods they've built, but they always seem to be lacking in shops and such. Makes the area feel a little desolate, IMO. What's your experience?

You could get a taste of Toronto and buy a unit in the new "Ontario" condo they're building over by Blackwall. :p
 
Compare this attitude to the parsimonious and parochial attitude we traditionally find in Toronto where there is little sense of importance or destiny. Hopefully this is changing as Toronto comes into its own. I think how we handle the Waterfront will be a big indication of what Toronto will be, smug backwater or international star.
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Whenever a Torontonian speaks of the city with a sense of importance they're deemed arrogant, think they live in the "centre of the universe", etc.
 
Whenever a Torontonian speaks of the city with a sense of importance they're deemed arrogant, think they live in the "centre of the universe", etc.
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And this will never change. It is Canada afterall and regional divisions will always exist. I say get over it and stop caring what the rest of Canada thinks. The ROC largely has nothing but contempt for Quebec, but yet, does that stop them from being proud of their province and cities?
 
Bakerloo to Clerkenwell? How would that have worked? Would it be a branch parralel to the Circle/H+C/Met line?

A shame the Chelsea-Hackney line seems to be shelved indefinitely...that would improve tube service around here drastically. As is there are about 4 stations within walking distance (Russel Sq, Farringdon, Holborn, Chancery Lane), but none that is *really* close, so usually I take the bus.

I think one of the reasons London isn't ridiculued for calling itself the centre of the universe is that its claim to that title is fairly credible.
 
"Whenever a Torontonian speaks of the city with a sense of importance they're deemed arrogant, think they live in the "centre of the universe", etc"

It's that dear old Canadian trait of 'eating our own'. Never mind the rest of Canada, even within the province of Ontario there is animosity and jealousy with regard to Toronto. To a certain extent this animosity is natural: There are lots of English who are resentful of London, and lots of French who hate those 'maudits' Parisians. Yet in a different context those very same people may be very proud of their capitals. It's all about the context. I don't think there is much to be done about the animosity of the rest of Canada to Toronto. It's all part of our massive regionalism and internal squabbling. Yet I find it hard to believe that somebody from Regina, for instance, would be disdainful of Toronto when talking to a foreigner abroad. National resentment of Toronto is probably about context too.

I do think that Toronto as a capital city should open itself up more to the province, even if only symbolically. On some level there should be a sense that the city is not just part of the province, but the heart of the province; that the city belongs to all in Ontario. Aside from Queen's Park, where does one really sense this at all? Where is there a sense of Toronto being the heart of a province, of the city being bigger than itself? Would a foreigner visiting Toronto get this at all? Maybe this is why Ontarians feel little affinity for a place that seemingly takes all the best, turning its back on the rest? It's all about PR and building image, and it's also another layer to our identity as a city that reaches beyond that of multiculturalism.


"I think one of the reasons London isn't ridiculued for calling itself the centre of the universe is that its claim to that title is fairly credible."

London is the centre of *its* own universe, and it is the perception that is more important than the reality. Toronto is the centre of its universe too, but we don't recognize it as so, blind to the intricacies of our own identity, always looking for our validation elsewhere.
 
tudararms:

London is the centre of *its* own universe, and it is the perception that is more important than the reality. Toronto is the centre of its universe too, but we don't recognize it as so, blind to the intricacies of our own identity, always looking for our validation elsewhere.
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But isn't that exactly what you're proposing we do - looking for our validation elsewhere by the way of urban form and manners, so that we'd compare ourselves favourably with say New York or London?

AoD
 
No, I think we take what suits us. This "existing in opposition" stance you advocate implies just as close a relationship to that with which you would want to distance us. Isn't it natural, and wise, to observe what works well or not so well in other places?
 
tudararms:

No, but I don't think we should be making ourselves into Paris, or London or New York by copying say their planning policies, for example. The core of those cities are fundamentally different from Toronto contextually speaking. Besides, Toronto has our own tradition to maintain - in fact, this sort of "small-mindedness" (others would prefer to call it humility) is very Prebyterian, reflective of our history. Isn't that something you advocated on many occasions?

AoD
 
"Bakerloo to Clerkenwell? How would that have worked? Would it be a branch parralel to the Circle/H+C/Met line?"

D'oh... need to look at a map before I post. The extension would have gone to Camberwell. Discussing the Tate, I had south London on my mind.
 
I do think that Toronto as a capital city should open itself up more to the province, even if only symbolically. On some level there should be a sense that the city is not just part of the province, but the heart of the province; that the city belongs to all in Ontario. Aside from Queen's Park, where does one really sense this at all?
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Agreed. Probably more City of Toronto literature and maybe even letterhead should tout us as "Ontario's Capital." Perhaps naming some of the newly created streets in the Portlands after Ontario cities and towns would be an idea. Moreover, the Province can certainly do more for the city financially (as we all know). However, beyond the funding issues, perhaps the Province should take stewardship of Queen's Park (and University Avenue) (and maybe even the First Parliament site) and declare them Provincial Parks and make them absolutely spectacular.
 
I'm down the street from Canary Wharf, along the Thames. Great location, very expensive (like the rest of the city, which is why I'm moving to Toronto). There's not a lot of neighborhood shops like a lot of older neighborhoods, but Canary Wharf has pretty much anything I'd want. The area is starting to fill up quite a bit with a lot of new condos going up and new people moving into the area. I like the new Ontario condo!

Here's what I read on Wikipedia about the Camberwell extension:

"An extension to the southern end of the line to Camberwell was proposed in 1949 but has never been built. The extension has been proposed again, as part of the Mayors' South London Tube Plan. There are options to extend the Victoria Line to Sutton and Wimbledon, the Bakerloo Line to Lewisham, with the possibillity to continue to Bexley and the Northern Line to Croydon."

With Crossrail 2, the Chelney line would pretty much be in place.
 
Thanks for the info!

Crossrail 2 is the Chelney line. Basically Chelney 2.0 in this post-privatisation world which has seen an emphasis-shift from tube tech to mainline tech. Just look at the East London line's current conversion from Underground to mainline trains and services. Kinda unfortunate for Chelney, IMO, due to the loss of some central area stations from the plans.
 
Cdl,

Could you explain how exactly the East London extension is going to work, if you're able? I had heard this bit about it going to mainline service before, but isn't it still going to be run as part of the Underground?
 
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