King Street (Streetcar Transit Priority)

[BrianHawkins1]

I completely agree with Chuck and others - one-ways are the answer. I've never swallowed any of the arguments against them, and still don't. I find it very unlikely that introducing a system of alternating one-ways in Toronto wouldn't work wonders for traffic flow in the core, and almost as unlikely that this would have any negative effect at all on street vibrancy anywhere. The notion that deliberately cluttering up the streets so that vehicles can't flow very well somehow makes urban street life better seems quite thoroughly nonsensical to me. Ditto swapping the Queen streetcar, for instance, for a subway - I simply don't buy the suggestion that this would in any way compromise Queen's vitality. It verges on silly to believe so, frankly - there are many, many examples around the world that soundly debunk that virtually baseless claim.

 

[dashingdan]

It's settled then. We're building a Queen Street subway.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Question: if King and Queen became one-ways, which one way would they go? An eastbound Queen makes sense, but there seems to be no way to avoid a pair of streets in the same direction (King & Adelaide or King & Wellington) without rebuilding the flyovers to the DVP and reversing Richmond and Adelaide (which would make Queen westbound). Two parallel streets in the same direction might work fine, it just seems 'wrong.'

For a street like Queen, a subway line plus one-waying it, leaving room for parking, would be a win for virtually everyone - except Steve Munro, hehe.

Oh yeah, and one-way streets are sooo much easier to cross, which can help streetlife immeasurably, in my opinion.

 

[EnviroTO]

Now let's look at other cities. St. Catherine is Montreal's most important urban street. Want to guess how many ways its traffic flows? Next head down to New York. Describe a typical street there.

Montreal's one way streets are typically two lanes moving and two lanes (one on each side) of parking. This makes the dynamic of those streets much like King or Bloor except the flow is in only one direction. New York has successful stores on is streets but it is a bit of an anomaly due to the sheer number of people living there. I haven't seen many sidewalk cafes in New York on those 3 or more lane one way streets though... there are enough people walking by to keep the stores busy but not many people sit and enjoy the street.

 

[bizorky]

Now let's look at other cities. St. Catherine is Montreal's most important urban street.

Yes, St. Catherine is a one way street, but it is not popular because of that. It is the diversity of stores and other attractions that make the street interesting. And St. Catherines does get pretty clogged with traffic at peak hours in spite of being a one way. I highly doubt that this would change regardless of traffic flow.

 

[unimaginative2]

Yes. The whole point is that whether a street is one-way or two-way has no impact on its vibrancy.

 

[flar]

Actually, Hamilton already converted James and John to two-way. King will be converted in the immediate downtown area in a couple years. James St. North and South are totally rejuvenated since the switch.

One of the benefits of two way is calmer traffic, people drive too fast on the one ways. It's also a lot easier for out of towners to get around.

 

[adma]

A real issue here, I guess, is that what's "traffic calming" for some is "traffic bottleneck" or "traffic congestion" for others.

Beware thy free flow...or not.

 

[Pep'rJack]

^ Right. As long as the speed limit is assertively enforced, I see no reason why one-ways need necessarily lead to hair-raising recklessness.

 

[adma]

Well, one ways + speed traps = instant municipal cash cow.

Toronto becomes like one of those Deliverance-country flyspecks where the chief sourse of municipal revenoo is passer-thrus who don't obey the reduce-speed sign. "Y'all went 26. It's posted for 25 here."

 

[gbelan]

^totally had that happen to me.not in this country though.

 

[ShonTron]

Actually, Hamilton already converted James and John to two-way. King will be converted in the immediate downtown area in a couple years. James St. North and South are totally rejuvenated since the switch.

King and John also have sychronized signals that allow traffic, if not congested to scoot through the city hitting few red lights, making it worse. One-way streets can be calmed. San Jose, where I am now, does an interesting job of one-way streets with bus and LRT facilities (I'll post pics soon). James seems to be a bit better (particularly around Cannon), but the Lister Block and a few other buildings really make the street look bad still.

- Your friendly transportation geek

 

[Degnaw]

TTC shunts streetcar plan
article

`Hostile' reaction prompts change to original proposal for King St., but few pleased with new plan
May 02, 2007 04:30 AM
Paul Moloney
city hall bureau

Bowing to opposition, the Toronto Transit Commission has moved its proposed King St. streetcar experiment slightly east to the stretch of King between Yonge and University.

But the new section – where streetcars would run in a reserved right of way for two months next summer – isn't proving to be any more popular with King St. businesses.

"What do they accomplish by that? Nothing," said restaurateur Al Carbone, owner of the Kit Kat.

Carbone said he remains concerned that forcing cars off the streetcar tracks, reducing the flow of traffic, will make it more difficult for patrons to reach his restaurant, located on King St. just west of John.

"It just messes up traffic, period," Carbone said yesterday. "People won't know which way to go or where to go. They'll think the whole thing's closed."

The original plan, unveiled in March, was to reserve a four- to five-block stretch of King where temporary posts would keep cars off the streetcar tracks, making transit service more reliable. Exactly where wasn't spelled out, but it was expected to be somewhere between Bay St. and Spadina Ave.

"The goal is to give streetcars better access," said Councillor Adam Giambrone, TTC chair. He said that currently, whenever he takes the King streetcar, it just "creeps along."

But the proposal ran into stiff opposition from businesses west of University, forcing the TTC to look to the east, said Giambrone (Ward 18, Davenport). "The businesses did raise a lot of concerns and were extremely hostile to this proposal. We need to step back."

But the proposed new location has taxi operators raising some concerns of their own.

Jim Bell, manager of Diamond Taxi, says it will be bad for taxi service because it could take away cab-stand space around King and Bay, where cabs can park and wait for fares.

"There are hundreds of taxicabs that are dropping off and picking up people in the financial core on King St.," Bell said. "First Canadian Place has thousands of people who work in there. There's the stock exchange, the Royal Trust Tower – it's going to have a dramatic impact."

Bell predicted that cabbies will end up circling the block, contributing to traffic congestion and pollution.

"The drivers are still going to be working the downtown core because that's where the people are," he said.

"If they can't stop at a cab stand where people can walk to them, they're going to be doing continual right-hand turns – down Yonge, along King, up York and around the block."

The proposal was presented yesterday to councillors on the Toronto and East York community council, who put it off until their next meeting May 29, in order to invite local property owners and citizens to come forward with their views.

The area already has a parking crunch, said Councillor Adam Vaughan (Ward 20, Trinity-Spadina), who has been urging the TTC to consult the public.

Vaughan was critical of the way the TTC has handled the proposal.

"This was plopped onto the floor of the TTC with no advance notice," he said. "It was going to go who knows where; it could have gone straight to city council and been voted on there, without one single public deputation."

Vaughan said it's unclear at this stage whether the revised location will be any more palatable.

"The reality is it still has an impact on the ward," he said. "We need to understand what that impact is before signing off and saying, `Go do it,' because restaurants could go bankrupt."

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Well, it was a good idea while it lasted. Let's hope it'll become more popular after the 2-month trial in the core though.

 

[unimaginative2]

The alternating one-way streets seems to come more out of an anti-car mentality than any genuine effort to improve circulation. Why not make King into a continuous one way street, with one lane maintained for parking. That way the streetcar has its own ROW, and road access and on-street parking are maintained.

 

[DarnDirtyApe]

I think doing it from Yonge to University is much better idea. That's where the worst traffic jams are in rush hour, and where the busiest stops are located. There are no street-oriented stores either, only skyscrapers. Finally, Richmond, Adelaide, and Wellington are all good alternatives for drivers.

I have no sympathy for the taxi drivers. There are already drivers who circle the block, or crawl along looking to scoop a fare from the taxis already waiting at the curb. There are generally way more cabs hanging around than there is demand.