How would you fix traffic in Toronto?

[MetroMan]

I just returned from a road trip to New York City. Having been the first time that I've driven there, I was impressed at how I never encountered traffic messes like we have in Toronto. I drove on local streets and on highways and never did I have to stop other than on regular lights, where cars would begin moving at the posted speed limit as soon as the signal changed.

I couldn't help but ask the question: Why is it that one of the world's most populous cities manages to have such a fluid flow of traffic, while Toronto with only 2 million makes it the rule to be completely sludged in traffic chaos? It is rare to be able to drive the speed limit in and around Toronto for most of the day.

I noticed that Manhattan's streets are almost entirely one way. Is this how they did it? Would turning Queen st. and King street into opposite direction one way streets help?

Toronto will have to confront this problem sooner or later or our growth and economy will stall. Some options -- such as a big dig -- are out of the question at this point so which realistic strategies would you employ to fix Toronto's traffic mess?

 

[taal]

I just returned from a road trip to New York City. Having been the first time that I've driven there, I was impressed at how I never encountered traffic messes like we have in Toronto. I drove on local streets and on highways and never did I have to stop other than on regular lights, where cars would begin moving at the posted speed limit as soon as the signal changed.

I couldn't help but ask the question: Why is it that one of the world's most populous cities manages to have such a fluid flow of traffic, while Toronto with only 2 million makes it the rule to be completely sludged in traffic chaos? It is rare to be able to drive the speed limit in and around Toronto for most of the day.

I noticed that Manhattan's streets are almost entirely one way. Is this how they did it? Would turning Queen st. and King street into opposite direction one way streets help?

Toronto will have to confront this problem sooner or later or our growth and economy will stall. Some options -- such as a big dig -- are out of the question at this point so which realistic strategies would you employ to fix Toronto's traffic mess?

Sorry ... where exactly were you driving ... sure you had the correct city ? ... Specifically did you drive in rush hour.

Traffic outside of rush hour is so quiet in downtown Toronto on streets ... it always is ... it always amazes how people go on about how difficult it is to drive downtown on the weekends but for the most part the streets are lightly used. The hi-ways are different story.

Traffic is the worst in the outer 416 / inner 905 in the GTA (even outside of rush hour).

 

[nfitz]

I just returned from a road trip to New York City. Having been the first time that I've driven there, I was impressed at how I never encountered traffic messes like we have in Toronto.

??? When was this?

I don't think I've ever crossed the George Washington Bridge of the Lincoln tunnel without sitting not moving for a lot longer than I do on the Gardiner. And I've walked faster than rush-hour traffic in Manhattan ...

Depends where you are of course ... I don't find traffic that bad driving in rush-hour in Toronto ... as long as I don't try and head north of Bloor ... or south of Eastern/Front. Much better than 905.

 

[Admiral Beez]

I had the same experience. My wife, kids and I drove to NYC last October. We stayed in NJ just outside the Tunnel (for cheaper hotel) and drove into Manhattan each day. We were amazed how easy it is to drive in Manhattan, both on the Friday daytime and weekends. It's crazy busy there, but the lights are set to flow traffic. Also, there are no or few restrictions on left or right turns - combined with one way streets everywhere and the traffic moves well.

Interestingly, the streets with the one way traffic still had vibrant retail life - unlike say Calgary where the one way streets are dead.

 

[greenleaf]

I would imagine the reason is that NYC has put in pro-pedestrian/bike/mass transit policies and rules to encourage these forms of movement. As a result, there was a tipping point such that enough people switched from driving their car to something else. After that, driving becomes easier.

 

[nfitz]

My wife, kids and I drove to NYC last October. We stayed in NJ just outside the Tunnel (for cheaper hotel) and drove into Manhattan each day. We were amazed how easy it is to drive in Manhattan, both on the Friday daytime and weekends

And your telling us that the inbound tunnel wasn't congested on a Friday in the daytime?

If one sticks to Manhattan outside of rush hour, I wouldn't be surprised if one wouldn't have much traffic problems ... downtown Toronto is pretty easy to drive too outside of rush hour. And there's less point in taking a car into downtown Manhattan than Toronto.

 

[PCC]

NYC has a pretty extensive subway network. Probably has alot to do with it, too.

 

[MetroMan]

I went this past long weekend. It was 4th of July weekend and the city was buzzing. Maybe the typical commuters weren't driving but there certainly were still lots of crazy cabbies and lots of other drivers.

Here's my proposal for Toronto:

Queen St. from Spadina to Jarvis. Eastbound only. Eastbound streetcar moved to the existing Westbound rail, putting the streetcar in the middle. The Queen streetcar combines with the King streetcar to become a downtown loop. Parking on the north continues as is, except for on left turning streets where it becomes a left turning lane. Parking on the south is unaffected, but prohibited at rush hour. This gives us 3 lanes of traffic plus a fourth at rush hour.

All traffic moves in one direction, unaffected by left turning cars which now get their own lane on approach at every left turn opportunity. A 2 way separated bike lane is added, further removing another reason for traffic congestion (slow cyclists).

Richmond, Adelaide and King receive the same treatment in alternating directions.

I'm proposing this for the stretch from Jarvis to Spadina because these are both major access routes to Lakeshore and the Gardiner.

 

[nfitz]

If your going to be so drastic, wouldn't it be worth while give the streetcar an exclusive lane at the same time?

I'm not sure that too many people would be happy having the King and Queen streetcars replaced by a single line that's so far apart - it's not like King and Queen are adjacent to each other. Queen/Richmond and King/Wellington-Front perhaps; and given each carry about 50,000 riders, it would be a challenge to operate a single route to replace both, unless a new subway was constructed.

 

[Ak2809]

I would much rather remove street cars altogether, and replace them with buses.

 

[MetroMan]

I would much rather remove street cars altogether, and replace them with buses.

Let me guess, you're a driver and not a transit rider?

You'd replace one streetcar with 4 buses? How does putting more vehicles on the road help with congestion?

 

[Ak2809]

Let me guess, you're a driver and not a transit rider?

You'd replace one streetcar with 4 buses? How does putting more vehicles on the road help with congestion?

Actually, I don't even have my license. Streetcars are notorious for holding up traffic, and blocking 2 lanes at stops. Additionally, the power lines for them cause a ton of radio interference which unrelated to traffic is another annoyance.

 

[nfitz]

I would much rather remove street cars altogether, and replace them with buses.

How does that make any sense? The new streetcars are 30-metres long. The buses are 12-metres long. Even articulated buses are 18-metres long.

And the buses are constantly changing lanes - making for not a very smooth ride compared to streetcars.

The traffic would be worse, the ride would be worse, you'd likely see more accidents with all the extra lane changes. And when you look at the passenger volume on King and Queen, you'll quickly see that it's beyond the capacity that buses can handle.

How would this benefit anyone?

 

[nfitz]

Streetcars are notorious for holding up traffic, and blocking 2 lanes at stops.

Downtown on Queen and King, most of the traffic on a street is IN the streetcar. Making the trip that much worse, would only increase the vehicle traffic on the road! How does this help cars?

Besides, why would anyone drive down either King or Queen downtown for more than a block or two, when you've got Richmond and Adelaide nearby?

Additionally, the power lines for them cause a ton of radio interference which unrelated to traffic is another annoyance.

Cell phones seem to work quite fine on streetcars ... I think you are stretching here.

 

[Ak2809]

Queen and King are not the only streets in Toronto that utilise street cars, and they very well may be quite effective for the downtown core. However, there are lots of places where streetcars can be replaced by buses effectively. Broadview is one such example.

Cell phones seem to work quite fine on streetcars ... I think you are stretching here.

Do people not listen to the radio anymore?