Transportfan
Senior Member
If they're buillding a C-D system through the gap, there must be a considerable demand for through traffic continuing on 6.
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Highway 401 Widening - Cambridge Area (MTO, Proposed)
- Thread starter LRGM
- Start date
If they're buillding a C-D system through the gap, there must be a considerable demand for through traffic continuing on 6.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
They were, but now they aren't.
Woodbridge_Heights
Senior Member
Either we are feeding off of each others ideas or have similar thought processes because I would do the same thing. Except I would have the 407 loop around Dundas/Hamilton and connect to the Lincoln Alexander Parkway in Hamilton. John C Munro airport would benefit from having the 407 in the vicinity for access to the GTA market.
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That would work too. So just to clarify, you wouldn't include the Guelph to Kitchener Highway 7 in part of your 407 toll plan?
Although I do think that anything named Highway 407 should travel E-W, not N-S. And any N-S highway connecting to the Lincoln Alexander Parkway would need to be in lieu of a Highway 6, because having 2 400 series highways so close together wouldn't make sense. In fact, I don't really think that having that section be tolled would be a good idea. I generally support tolling in 2 cases:
1) On urban freeways during peak periods as a means of raising revenue, and as congestion taxation.
2) On highways that are meant to be ALTERNATIVE routes and run generally parallel to an existing non-tolled option. The 407 runs generally parallel to the 401, and I think, ownership issues aside, that it's a great idea.
Any extension of the 407 further west would only work if it's set up as an alternative to the 401. This is why using the Highway 7 widening between Guelph and Kitchener makes sense. The N-S connection to Hamilton would only parallel Highway 6, a grossly underserved alternative.
The Highway 6 South gap dilemma is a hole in the 400 series highway network. I don't think that that section should be tolled, as it isn't really paralleling an existing 400 series highway. And if it does end up being tolled, it should definitely not be part of the 407. It should have another designation, as the 407 should run E-W.
dunkalunk
Senior Member
I think it is odd that we are considering a completely new highway corridor in this region. The 401 is already planned to be expanded to 10 lanes through this area. However there are a few things that is not getting enough attention, it is the full upgrading of Highway 6 to 400-series standards, or the contruction of new rail corridors which would releive existing ones to provide frequent passenger service, or putting tolls on existing provincial highways. (think New York State Thruway)
I honestly don't expect this study to go much of anywhere, in the way that the mid-peninsula corridor got canned. Maybe a few road expansions, but no new corridor construction.
I honestly don't expect this study to go much of anywhere, in the way that the mid-peninsula corridor got canned. Maybe a few road expansions, but no new corridor construction.
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LRGM
New Member
I believe the Tories were going to revive the mid-peninsula plans if they got elected.
I'm pretty sure that the Highway 7 upgrade between Kitchener and Guelph is still on the books, which is why I think it should be incorporated into the 407, and tolled (although using the same deal as the government is using with the 407 East extension).
I wouldn't let the Tories touch anything transportation-related with a 39 1/2 foot pole...
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LRGM
New Member
Ontario needs a bigger 401
Everyone who drives on Highway 401 from Waterloo Region or Guelph toward Toronto knows how busy — and how slow — it can be. Particularly during what is fondly called “rush hour,” traffic usually crawls along and often stops.
Given this less-than-satisfactory reality, people should be pleased that the Ministry of Transportation has already started to think about expanding the highway from Hespeler Road in Cambridge to Halton Region. The timing is right. The ministry’s traffic projections predict that the highway between Hespeler Road and Highway 6 will need to have a total of eight lanes by 2016 and 10 by 2031. Between Highway 6 and the Halton boundary, the highway will need to be expanded to eight lanes by 2016 and perhaps 12 lanes by 2031.
There’s little doubt the planners are correct: southern Ontario’s population has grown dramatically in recent years and shows no sign of becoming static.
As it considers the future of the highway, the ministry has offered an intriguing idea. It has suggested that it could design what are technically known as lanes for “high-occupancy vehicles.” The ministry would permit only vehicles with two or more people to use the lanes.
In principle, the idea of special lanes for vehicles with at least one passenger is sensible and attractive because it would help rein in traffic volumes. It would encourage drivers to contact friends, relatives and work colleagues to see if they can travel in the same vehicle if they are going to the same destination. Anything that will reduce the number of vehicles on Highway 401 is worth exploring because it would improve the trips of those who have no choice but to take the highway.
It’s important, however, that the ministry plan this new lane with care. For instance, which lane should the ministry designate for the high occupancy vehicles? If the ministry chooses the inner lane, it would prevent drivers from using that lane as they currently do to pass other vehicles. Which lane would become the passing lane?
Clearly, managing the transportation needs of people in southern Ontario will challenge the wisdom as well as the budget of the Ontario government. The planned GO Train service between Toronto and Kitchener will take a few vehicles off Highway 401, and a more comprehensive train service would probably remove quite a few more. Unfortunately, the government has approved only minimal service to start: two trips to Toronto in the morning and two return trips in the afternoon. That’s not enough to encourage many drivers to change their transportation plans.
The province could probably also take a few vehicles off Highway 401 if it proceeded with the long-discussed expansion of Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener. Kitchener Centre MPP John Milloy has acknowledged that the government would like to replace Highway 7 but he added that the government cannot do this until it has more money. No one should count that occurring in the near future.
The ministry is holding public information sessions on its plans for the 401 in Cambridge today and in Aberfoyle on Thursday. Residents of Waterloo Region and Wellington County should use these sessions to help the ministry move us into the future.
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So...who knows when the new Highway 7 will be built?!
Another thing the article brings up is which lane should be designated as the HOV lane. The one thing I don't like about the HOV lane being on the left is when there isn't high traffic volumes, you will have slower drivers in the HOV lane and also in the right lane. Then there is all the other drivers that drive much faster. I feel like it causes problems when the slower HOV driver tries to get off. Then on the flip side, it probably wouldn't be a good idea in the right lane either because in high traffic times, you will have people zooming by in the HOV lane and then very slow moving vehicles jumping through the HOV lane to get off.
If anyone can comprehend what I'm trying to say, what are your thoughts, opinions and experience with this?
Other related article links:
http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/595854--waiting-and-waiting-for-a-promised-highway-7
http://www.therecord.com/opinion/editorial/article/598037--where-s-the-new-highway-7
Everyone who drives on Highway 401 from Waterloo Region or Guelph toward Toronto knows how busy — and how slow — it can be. Particularly during what is fondly called “rush hour,” traffic usually crawls along and often stops.
Given this less-than-satisfactory reality, people should be pleased that the Ministry of Transportation has already started to think about expanding the highway from Hespeler Road in Cambridge to Halton Region. The timing is right. The ministry’s traffic projections predict that the highway between Hespeler Road and Highway 6 will need to have a total of eight lanes by 2016 and 10 by 2031. Between Highway 6 and the Halton boundary, the highway will need to be expanded to eight lanes by 2016 and perhaps 12 lanes by 2031.
There’s little doubt the planners are correct: southern Ontario’s population has grown dramatically in recent years and shows no sign of becoming static.
As it considers the future of the highway, the ministry has offered an intriguing idea. It has suggested that it could design what are technically known as lanes for “high-occupancy vehicles.” The ministry would permit only vehicles with two or more people to use the lanes.
In principle, the idea of special lanes for vehicles with at least one passenger is sensible and attractive because it would help rein in traffic volumes. It would encourage drivers to contact friends, relatives and work colleagues to see if they can travel in the same vehicle if they are going to the same destination. Anything that will reduce the number of vehicles on Highway 401 is worth exploring because it would improve the trips of those who have no choice but to take the highway.
It’s important, however, that the ministry plan this new lane with care. For instance, which lane should the ministry designate for the high occupancy vehicles? If the ministry chooses the inner lane, it would prevent drivers from using that lane as they currently do to pass other vehicles. Which lane would become the passing lane?
Clearly, managing the transportation needs of people in southern Ontario will challenge the wisdom as well as the budget of the Ontario government. The planned GO Train service between Toronto and Kitchener will take a few vehicles off Highway 401, and a more comprehensive train service would probably remove quite a few more. Unfortunately, the government has approved only minimal service to start: two trips to Toronto in the morning and two return trips in the afternoon. That’s not enough to encourage many drivers to change their transportation plans.
The province could probably also take a few vehicles off Highway 401 if it proceeded with the long-discussed expansion of Highway 7 between Guelph and Kitchener. Kitchener Centre MPP John Milloy has acknowledged that the government would like to replace Highway 7 but he added that the government cannot do this until it has more money. No one should count that occurring in the near future.
The ministry is holding public information sessions on its plans for the 401 in Cambridge today and in Aberfoyle on Thursday. Residents of Waterloo Region and Wellington County should use these sessions to help the ministry move us into the future.
------------------
So...who knows when the new Highway 7 will be built?!
Another thing the article brings up is which lane should be designated as the HOV lane. The one thing I don't like about the HOV lane being on the left is when there isn't high traffic volumes, you will have slower drivers in the HOV lane and also in the right lane. Then there is all the other drivers that drive much faster. I feel like it causes problems when the slower HOV driver tries to get off. Then on the flip side, it probably wouldn't be a good idea in the right lane either because in high traffic times, you will have people zooming by in the HOV lane and then very slow moving vehicles jumping through the HOV lane to get off.
If anyone can comprehend what I'm trying to say, what are your thoughts, opinions and experience with this?
Other related article links:
http://www.therecord.com/news/local/article/595854--waiting-and-waiting-for-a-promised-highway-7
http://www.therecord.com/opinion/editorial/article/598037--where-s-the-new-highway-7
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Pretty sure the Ministry has already solved this problem... (See 403, QEW, and 417)
This article sounds like it was written in the early 1990s. Next up: Explaining this thing called the Internets. "It's a series of tubes."
Personally, I'd like to see the expanded Highway 7 built before a widening of the 401. They would probably be in similar dollar ranges (assuming the Province has already bought the ROW), and I generally favour building a parallel route as opposed to increasing capacity on an existing route.
I get what you're trying to say. The reality is that, no matter where you put it, someone is going to have a hard time getting in or out of it. I'd rather have it on the inside, but that's just me.
The most intriguing solution to this that I've seen is I-75 through downtown Atlanta. What they've done is they have the HOV lanes as the centre lanes, but they actually have dedicated off and on ramps for the HOV lanes. In order to exit, a separate exiting HOV lane appears on the inside, which then exits up and to street level at the cross street. It basically makes the HOV lanes an expressway within an expressway.
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LRGM
New Member
I decided to do some Google Streetview on I-75 in Atlanta and boy there is a lot of cars there lol. It looks like their HOV lane doesn't move any faster when its busy. I see how the HOV exiting could help for them since they have HOV lane on the left and then 5 other lanes to the right of it. Would seem impossible to get off otherwise. Not a bad idea though.
Transportfan
Senior Member
True. Better to have redundancy than a monsterous rural freeway.
LRGM
New Member
I was in Laval, Quebec last week and I noticed on Highway 15 that they had a HOV lane for part of the highway. They set it up a bit differently and it is only HOV mon-fri from 3pm-7pm. Here are some pictures from Google Streetview.
EnviroTO
Senior Member
I prefer the HOV lane on the left. If there is a slow HOV driver then at least when the lane opens up there is the option to quickly get into the fast non-HOV lane if it is moving better. Last weekend I saw an SUV going slow without a lot of traffic on the road make bad lane changes forcing others to apply brakes work its way over to the HOV lane and slow down the lane completely. I just shook my head. It seemed like the plan was to use the lane to put the car on cruise control and the drivers brain on autopilot so the driver could focus on the conversation with other passengers. My only complaint about how it is set up is the 2 person rule. High occupancy is 2? Lets make it 3 so there is at least someone in the back seat. Calling a 2 seat sport coupe a high occupancy vehicle is a bit of a joke.
timio
Active Member
Some action on this front - two overpasses (Fountain and Speedsville)between 8 and Hespeler will be replaced over the next few years in preparation for the highway widening. It's unclear through the article if it will be 2013/2014 or 2014/2015 for this work, but it's something.
DavidJamesTO
Active Member
I think they're looking at 2014/15.
Ohhh, driving in Cambridge is going to be painful next year.
Ohhh, driving in Cambridge is going to be painful next year.